Here's an OS X/Finder problem that has been bugging me for some time. I believe it's related to the auto-scroll invoke problems, but this one just makes me crazy.

Every now and then, when I'm dragging a file from the desktop into a Finder window (seems to happen more often on the window corresponding to an internal hard drive)... I'll get this weird stall during the drag, followed by an alert as if I've tried to drag TWO COPIES of the same file into the same place. Then it'll say something like "at least one of the files with the name blah blah is busy.

OK, first off, I didn't try to drag the file twice, something about the dragging stutters and gets pooched. Second of all, it didn't behave properly if the issue WAS trying to copy a file with the same name. Didn't offer to replace, for instance.

I hate to say it, but something like dragging ONE FRIGGIN' FILE from the desktop to a hard drive should be pretty much childsplay for such an "advanced" operating system like OS X, shouldn't it? Huh?

But there are still so many irritating, beta, bullshit things that still go wrong with it. Another one I can't STAND is when I go to click on a scrollbar, and OS X registers the click as a miss... as a click on whatever's behind the scroll. Um. NO. I didn't miss. The live area that tells the window manager what window you're trying to work on, gets too easily confused.

What I'm saying is, confusing OS X should be HARD. Right now it's easy. Too easy. There's too many little stupid quirks that X-Men can giggle and shrug their shoulders and overlook, but I can't. To me, they're nut-driving.

quote:

Originally posted by thalo:
Here's an OS X/Finder problem that has been bugging me for some time. I believe it's related to the auto-scroll invoke problems, but this one just makes me crazy.

Every now and then, when I'm dragging a file from the desktop into a Finder window (seems to happen more often on the window corresponding to an internal hard drive)... I'll get this weird stall during the drag, followed by an alert as if I've tried to drag TWO COPIES of the same file into the same place. Then it'll say something like "at least one of the files with the name blah blah is busy.

OK, first off, I didn't try to drag the file twice, something about the dragging stutters and gets pooched. Second of all, it didn't behave properly if the issue WAS trying to copy a file with the same name. Didn't offer to replace, for instance.

I hate to say it, but something like dragging ONE FRIGGIN' FILE from the desktop to a hard drive should be pretty much childsplay for such an "advanced" operating system like OS X, shouldn't it? Huh?

But there are still so many irritating, beta, bullshit things that still go wrong with it. Another one I can't STAND is when I go to click on a scrollbar, and OS X registers the click as a miss... as a click on whatever's behind the scroll. Um. NO. I didn't miss. The live area that tells the window manager what window you're trying to work on, gets too easily confused.

What I'm saying is, confusing OS X should be HARD. Right now it's easy. Too easy. There's too many little stupid quirks that X-Men can giggle and shrug their shoulders and overlook, but I can't. To me, they're nut-driving.

I've been playing aroung with X a little bit on my mini. Playing around alreeady made it puke badly a couple of times. Like it seemed impossible to drag a file to a folder, somehow it always ended up in the parent folder. Shrug. OS X.

I use it only for playing games now, since i installed dual-boot ubuntu.

Oh yeah, that's another one that slays me. Why is dragging a file to a folder like a video game? If you are dragging a file into a folder in list view, and the Finder window has enough items in it to scroll... the target folder becomes a friggin' MOVING TARGET. Autoscroll invokes when you don't want it to (and doesn't when you want it to). It's maddening.

It's really awful to be dragging a bunch of files and miss, because the stupid folder won't stay put. Happens to me frequently when I'm doing housecleaning in the Finder. Sometimes to avoid the terrible Finder, I'll do certain file management tasks with the COMMAND LINE... and I HATE the command line. That's how bad the Finder is to me.

Why was it, in the legacy, that file management was so effortless? Working in the Finder was a joy. It always felt snappy and responsive, and did what you wanted. It wasn't loaded up with garbage, it just behaved. The OS X Finder is almost as if it was designed to make you want to pound on the desk with your fist. Frustrating and irritating user experience.

And Labels make it worse. It used to be so effortless to sight in on a simple colored icon. Now there are so many label states, they conflict and appear to be highlight states or button surrounds, that you never can tell what's going on visually. Mac labels are simply awful now. The worst thing about the interface graphics.

Then come the interface fonts. Still terrible. And still not nearly as customizable as the legacy was. I appreciated being able to set the typeface to 10 point, so as to see more items in Finder windows... but holy crap it's WAY less readable than smaller fonts were in the legacy. I know Apple can do better. Are you kidding me? With the resolution of their TFT monitors being what it is, small crisp fonts should be childsplay.

Geneva 9 should be an option, and it should be crisp and readable, not blurry, and without all the funny spacing issues. I'd be happy with one choice--only in the Finder--that was pixelated and monospaced... just for the purposes of Finder list and column views.

quote:

Originally posted by thalo:
It's really awful to be dragging a bunch of files and miss, because the stupid folder won't stay put.

A BUNCH of files ?

You mean, like, several ?

More than one ?

With the OS X finder ?

Man, you are taking chances.

I hear in 10.5 they will have something new finder-wise.

I hear they'll base it on - Spotlight !

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

quote:

A BUNCH of files ?

You mean, like, several ?

More than one ?

With the OS X finder ?

Man, you are taking chances.

Hahaha brother klappy, you made me laugh hot coffee into my sinuses. Thanks.

I know, it's hit-or-miss when dragging large numbers of files. Mostly miss.

My problem is, I have to do a lot of that. I generate so many files, and have to cull the keepers from the losers. I always loved the Finder, and that style of file management, because that's the way I really work. The desktop metaphor was perfect for me... and I think most people, because it's grounded in the way humans organize their stuff.

It really is a question of doing things VISUALLY... color coding, and seeing filenames... arranging by size, shape, etc.

None of which works, if everything is given the same kicked up visual prominence.

I've criticized OS X's horrible Aqua interface time and time again for this. It's too busy, too overdesigned. The stuff that's important gets lost, and the dumb-ass moronic digikid bullshit nonsense jumps out at you and grabs your attention.

The controls you actually WORK with, are impossible to make sense of... but the time-wasting, slacker asshole happy horseshit is front and center.

quote:

Geneva 9 should be an option, and it should be crisp and readable, not blurry, and without all the funny spacing issues. I'd be happy with one choice--only in the Finder--that was pixelated and monospaced... just for the purposes of Finder list and column views.

Absolutely, but i would prefer a simple font-dialog that enables the user to choosy ANY font.
Nearly any alternative OS out there offers this essential feature, but Crapple still fails to offer freedom of choice. They like to lock-in their userbase and tell em what looks cool. Sorry for offensive language but this is fucked! Fucked since Day one.
I use some apps which offer flexible font-prefs (e.g. Fetch). I am happy that I can use my favourite fonts inside the file-lists. The only downside is obvious then: There's a visual discrepancy between the nice crisp file-list and every other UI-Element containing Blur'o'rama.
So I would prefer to have complete control over Interface-Fonts then... :-( impossible.
... <sigh>

quote:

but i would prefer a simple font-dialog that enables the user to choosy ANY font.

You and me both, brother. I didn't mean I want ONLY Geneva 9 without being able to change anything else. I've been lobbying for font customization in OS X since day 1, AT LEAST to the level the legacy had it. That would be the smart thing to do. The fonts that really bother me, that I most want to change, are the ones in Finder and column lists, left Finder, and on the desktop as icon labels. But the style police at Apple have locked in the interface fonts, because so much of the way Aqua works, and deals with its own bells and whistles, gets too difficult for them if they give the user the reins. It's because the interface is overly complicated. Every font had to be tweaked and tuned because of the stupid transparency, and shrink-'n-grow effects.

While we're at it, I'd still like to get rid of ALL transparency effects on menus, and the stupid stripes. Those stripes are nothing more than an irritant now. There is absolutely no good reason on earth why menus have to be see-through.

I design a lot of web sites, and I NEVER put transparency in a dropdown menu. It pooches the user experience.

I want Apple to also clean up the dialogs... we still have drawers, and sheets, popup labels, and free-floating dialogs which are all used inconsistently, and don't often look right.

I'd like customization on things like the left Finder column, I'd love to be able to sort it chronologically, by date modified. If you have a "magnification" effect in the dock, it would make sense to have one in the left Finder... not controlled by window size (which obviously doesn't work), but by the user mousing over. It should have an autoscroll that works. For that matter, the Finder, and every app should, too.

In open/saves, there should be a way to make a new folder in the left column, or put an item there from WITHIN an open/save. It's very counterintuitive not to have that.

We should be able to control how open/saves appear, and what column is highlighted by default when they are invoked.

quote:

I didn't mean I want ONLY Geneva 9 without being able to change anything else.

Brother Thalo, of course not. I simply couldn't resist writing down my own frustration about the systemwide lack of serious choice.
I (again) absolutely agree on the other things you pointed out.
But Apple is Apple, they "invented" Crapqua and (they IMHO think) would lose their face if they would alter an element completely, because this would say "We were completely wrong about the design of element XY" (e.g. stripes, transparent menus, etc.) ...
This is tradition at Apple, just imagine how long it took Apple to include those simple Font-Preferences in the Appearance-Controlpanel in the Legacy.

To calm down a bit i imagine Andy Warhol saying:"Never mind!"
...and to calm down even more I'm having a Becks Beer now. Cheers!

As much as I hate the design elements of Crapqua, and think that the Mac OS has taken a giant step back in usability and intuitiveness, remember there are X-Men out there who have fallen for its con hook, line, and sinker.

So the marketeers can point to the entire dumbing down of the Mac and say, "we were right." Steve Jobs can smile like the cat who got the canary, because in fact the digital hub strategy DID fool a lot of the people a lot of the time...

my problem has always been: uh, wait, WHY FOOL THEM?

Yeah, pros are pesky, demanding snobs... but they've just traded one kind of elitism for another. One that separates the Mac Community into Marks and Sharks... geek aristocrats and retard-digikids. I've never thought that trying to attract dumber, less demanding customers was the path to glory.

As you know, I'd have much rather seen an Apple ethos that said, every user is WORTH doing our best work for. Usability is key... eye candy is not as important as making computers easy to use.

Face it, there are people who can't see past eye candy. If it's got a 3-D appearance, and the illusion of a few different light sources, they go: "mmmmm.... shiny" and that's enough for them. If they're guided along the road that says Macs are time-wasting, slacker-engine idiot boxes, they'll buy into that.

But professionals aren't as charmed by eye candy. Pros need stuff that works. And works well. After working with OS X every day since it came out, and having to modify my graphic design business around it, and its shortcomings, I can tell you this: on the level of design and usability, things were better before. In the legacy.

That is not to say that OS X doesn't have anythign going for it at all. Network and servery-stuff is stronger, there are nuggets of ideas that I have no problem with (such as protected memory, preemptive multitasking)... but which I really think never got fully fleshed out.

Where all the energy has gone, is to the ridiculous, unimportant crap. The façade, not the real nuts and bolts. It's been more important to Apple to get big luscious 3-D icons, that it has been to get the system working well with apps.

When I see the latest Mac commercial (the one I call "douche-é"), it makes me crazy when they say the Mac doesn't crash. Pfffft.

Actually, my Mac crashes APPLICATIONS every day. Every single day. I lose work every day. Work I shouldn't lose. I lost work in the legacy too, and friggin' hated it... but the USER EXPERIENCE was better. Now that the user experience SUCKS THE BIG ONE, I am much less forgiving of the crashes where I lose work.

What Apple has to do right now, is fix the crappy interface and crappy Finder. Those are the two things that are holding back OS X, and making it inadequate for pro use.

I'd still settle for an "OS X Pro" with a minimal 2-D interface, which got rid of the ridiculous overhead and CPU-waste of Aqua.

quote:

Originally posted by thalo:
As much as I hate the design elements of Crapqua, and think that the Mac OS has taken a giant step back in usability and intuitiveness

It really fits in here to quote Jeff Raskin (R.I.P.):
I wrote to him: "I need more mouseclicks in X to do the same stuff i do in 9."
His reply:"OS-X is a step sideways."

quote:

it makes me crazy when they say the Mac doesn't crash.

Crappy, Eh? This fairy tale really seems to work, friends telling me, UH-OH OS X doesn't crash really, i noticed. I think it's based on the fact, that OS X itself rarely crashes, but Apps sometimes crash/disappear/quit in a blink. The result is the same: Lost work in a worst case scenario. But the personal experience of an OS crash seems to be worse than an application implosion, since a reboot isn't neccessary. lol.
These days i will be forced to work in OS X finally, because my local publishing-houses (and best cash-cows) finally upgraded to OS X & Indesign. This of course doesn't affect my home machine, still dual-booting. I like it. I'll use anything to do graphics-design, really, i don't care anymore, money is money.

I thought the same thing, brother smithz, go with the flow, money is money...

I've been a good little adopter. I gave up the legacy more or less as soon as it became financially feasible to do so.

And yet, I'm miserable. Not because I don't have enough work. Not because I don't have enough clients. Just because the Mac interface is a pile of crap when it comes to using it in a professional capacity. That's it.

That's my beef with Apple. I blame them for first making me a hardcore fan and Mac Evangelist, and then turning their back on me, and making me a heretic. They sacrificed pro productivity for digikid/newbie bait. They made the Mac interface a poker chip in the game of impressing the easily impressed, and sold their souls. They traded making things work, for making things look like GoGurt and Skateboard eye candy.

I'd like to see some class and professionalism come back to the Mac. I think they have it in them to do that. I see glimmers of it in some of the areas they want to attract (like digital photography, and film and video editing). The interface for something like Aperture, for example, is somewhat better than the iTunes based other crap.

But any time I go to one of the other Mac discussion boards (which I only do if I want to make myself crazy), and I see all the friggin' BULLSHIT they throw around, it's just proof to me how dysfunctional the Mac OS still is. How deeply in denial the userbase really is.

To this day, users make more fucking EXCUSES for the Mac, than actually try to do any work with it. We're all still in a holding pattern, hoping that Apple will fix what's really broke, and they never do.

Things that were touted as great leaps forward, like pan-application services, never got off the ground. Not only are they not intuitive or easy to use, they don't do anything important and never became useful. Consequently, there's all these menu items in the OS that I guarantee you, nobody ever touches.

There have been so many rolls of the dice adding on layers of interface, but same deal: none of it really does anything WELL, so it sits there dead. Like a dated video game, which little davy digikid got bored with.

Where the Platinum, legacy Mac interface had a really long run of being accepted, by virtue of its minimalism... Mac OS X already looks "so nineties" like its day has passed. The crystal sausage scrollbars and candy buttons just irritate me. They make me laugh AT Apple, rather than WITH them. They're just lame. To me they're proof at the low esteem Apple Marketeers hold the Mac Faithful in.

I've said this time and time again, but I'll never tire of it: The answer to making the Mac great again, is to simplify the interface, not add as much happy horseshit as you can. Less is More. Everyone on this planet would rather have a clean, simple, pure, usable, intuitive interface, than one kicked up with too much busy garbage. That's just a fact.

If people want to over-decorate? Fuckin' let 'em. Let people theme up THEIR interface if they want. Let 'em put whatever desktop image, whatever bells and whistles, whatever anime icons they want... let 'em pixar up their Macs until they are a swirling mess of visual overstimulation for all I care. Just don't make EVERYBODY do that.

Have a "baseline" interface for pros that's relatively bullshit free. All business. A productivity ENHANCER rather than a slacker-toy diverter and time-waster. The two worlds can live together. Pros and digis can use the same platform. Casual users can coexist with artists working on a deadline.

The difference is, pros want an interface that isn't in the fucking WAY. Digikids want one that IS in the way, and makes them feel like all the meaningless controls they twiddle, actually do something. Pros want to REALLY do something. Digikids want to pretend.

But pretending isn't against the law. Pros don't want to make digis feel GUILTY for slacking, while they try to work. Just don't force pros to jump over the slacker obstacles and distractions on their way to productivity. Instead, GIVE them a tool that increases productivity.

The legacy, by virtue of its simplicity and intuitiveness, became an graphical user interface for everyone. OSX has an interface designed for retards... it's the black velvet elvis of interfaces, when it could have been a useful tool.

Usability, usability, usability. Common sense. Simplicity. Contrast. Intuitiveness. Customizability. These are all things the legacy had under control. There were certain truths about interfaces and users that the legacy years UNCOVERED and brought to light, but which the OS X era has swept back under the carpet.

I'm sick of an interface that treats me like an idiot. That uses eye candy to hide its profound shortcomings, and run cover for the fact that it's poorly conceived and inadequate for professional use.