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| HighHopes |
Markle, good to have you back. There is good news. The sacred Dinnerware in Pluto's orbit has absolute proof for its obvious existence. Now, only the truly evil can claim not to believe there is a full Place Setting For Two circling the sun in the orbit of Pluto. One can only wonder about their evil intentions in denying the Dinnerware Truth. Some, maybe, are merely misguided and ignorant, but others are clearly deeply threatened by people like us; good, decent people of faith and convection. Read and behold scripture and the words of the great prophet RicoX: I have circled the sun in the orbit of pluto many times. I can assure you there are no complete silver dinner settings for two. There is no truth in this statement what so ever. They never set a complete silver dinner setting for less than four. Eyewitness testimony from the prophet RicoX himself! He has been to the sacred place. He has seen the Dinnerware. Still, those who oppose our goodness refuse to believe! Eyewitness testimony! Written scripture! It is written. Written for them to read from the hand of the learned and holy prophet RicoX inspired by seeing the sacred Dinnerware Itself! Written scripture! What more could they want? There are RicoX scholars still working trying to interpret the meaning of the prophet's words. We all know there is a full Place Setting For Two and yet RicoX (may Dinnerware be his) uses the word "four." Many scholars have assured us that the word "four," while in the orbit of Pluto, means "two." Others have speculated that the good and holy RicoX (may Dinnerware be his) was known to partake of strong wine and may have been seeing double. There is a lively scholarly debate swirling about the doctrine in the scriptures. Our Dinnerware faith is generous and open to all. We welcome this sort of debate and are accepting of opposing points of view just as this debate so very clearly demonstrates. We Dinnerware believers are indeed a good, generous decent people. Those who do not believe do so because they reject the good and embrace the evil. That is their malicious choice and they seek to destroy all that is good and decent by spreading the malignancy of their opposing Dinnerware-less doctrine. In our goodness and decency we look forward to these evil ones being cast into a caldron of endless suffering, degradation, humiliation, in everlasting pain from boils and sores that never heal and bleeding from their eyes while they writhe in constant anguish in never ending torture and torment crying for mercy from their wretchedness. As a good, generous decent people we can only contemplate with merciless satisfaction the raw suffering that awaits these other people. | |||
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| Thalo.net Skeptic |
Well said, HH! Markle | |||
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| Crap Settler Extraordinaire |
This was posted by HH some ways back, so I thought I would refresh here.
Apparently, we still have the zealot moniker, see here. A guy who wants to understand exactly the things discussed here finds himself put off. I wonder if there is a way to remedy that? | |||
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| THALO.net divinity |
Here is the poster PSST response after being given the link to thalo.net:
In 10 seconds if that, PSST ascertained that the site seems cultish and freeky. I think this means the home page is working. thalo.net is not about what is on the surface. | |||
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| Thalo.net's official Master-debaiter |
Re: people like PSST on the 'Net: Right, calling each other "Fucktard", "picklesmoocher", "faggot", "Nazi", "Troll" and "scumfuckingdickwad" is "normal", but god forbid people call eachother "brother"....Thaaaat's freaky. Get real....fucktard. -- I do care. I just want to have a beer while I care. | |||
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| Master Baiter |
That's friggin' HILARIOUS, brother mighty. Ahhh, I'm so misunderstood, lol. When I poke fun at the cultishness of the Mac Faithful (despite the fact that I'm one of them)... I get branded a heretic. When I examine the mechanics of trolling and online blogging and what really gets people emotionally involved to the point where they participate, I'm a freeky [sic] cult leader. Just by exposing a little untidy corner of human nature. Gotta love it. It was like touching a hot stove, like listening to spanish radio, lol. I'm surprised he even lasted ten seconds. I rest my case. People in this postmodern culture are loathe to look any deeper than a few vocabulary words and surface appearances. That's why they're so easy to con. That's why Apple is able to foist off OS X as an ultra-modern fast and stable operating system, and nobody but us seems to question the veracity of that. There ain't enough Totos in the world, nipping at the heels of the powerful, and pulling aside the curtain to reveal the truth behind the "Great and Powerful OS"... it's all a façade. It takes effort and skepticism to see past what Apple wants us to see.This message has been edited. Last edited by: thalo, | |||
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| THALO.net prophet |
mega-lol... quaked again yesterday, it was fun, on os9 of course. | |||
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| Thalo.net Skeptic |
. "Saint Steven, His name be praised, may He live for a thousand years, revealed to us that thalo.net seems cultish annd freeky." | |||
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| Master Baiter |
Yeah, no shit. If anyone has asked us to drink Aqua blue Kool-Aid and believe that a big bouncing flying saucer was going to take us all to a better place... | |||
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I understand why some are against the adoption of OS X (for instance, Finder sucks,) but really, it had to happen. Biased opinion? I think not; I think it's the truth. Despite your rants about downward spirals, Apple is constantly making profits on their Mac division, and is experiencing an increase in market share, with 4-5% possible soon. Apple also needed a modern OS - for me anyway, OS 9.2 was nice and I like it, but it was roughly equivalent to Win98/Me in stability- many days it would crash more then once. You may blame buggy software, and you are probably right (IE 5 for instance is a bug-ridden mess,) but you really shouldn't have to excuse a computer's crashes. Computer's just shouldn't crash, period. The App management in X is also far superior. X supports full SMP even on unaware apps, so background apps run just as fast as foreground apps. X also supports running up to a dozen apps easily on just a half-gig of RAM; its active app limits are pretty much nonexistent on 512MB or higher systems, and surprisingly high on 256-384MB systems too. Plus, the Dock makes it take just one click to switch, instead of hiding app switching behind a secret menu. And let's not forget the memory allocation; web browsers are constantly requiring you to increase their allocation for plug-ins, complex web pages, etc. Also, the Cocoa part of Job's "Baby" is actually incredibly useful, making it a cinch to write apps like iPhoto and iMovie, compared to the headache Mac OS 9 was for developers. As for a choice between OSes, either Linux or Mac OS X seems the obvious choices to me. Mac OS 9 has no/limited support for any modern technologies such as Bluetooth, 64-bit, photos, the modern CSS Web, etc. Windows has lots of Bugs and a large array of viruses, trojans, and spyware. It also just isn't as usable. More notes: * I like the browser-style interface but hate using a Web browser as the browser, so Mac OS X is the only environment that really fits me. * I don't like to do stuff in the Terminal unless necessary or will save me money * I like having Linux compatibility for the sake of those cool programs, not because I love a CLI. * I don't use the CLI very much * I have a Grandma who is a longtime Mac OS 9 user who recently purchased an iMac G5 and moved to OS X 10.3. She is very happy with her new computer and it was a fairly smooth transition. | ||||
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| Thalo.net Skeptic |
Only a half-gig of RAM? Wow!! | |||
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| Master Baiter |
Welcome, brother Ryan. Our 81st member. Seven more and we can call ourselves the crazy 88. Because it sounds cool. Hey, listen, I understand what you are saying. I've heard it all before, and much of it I agree with. Stuff like "it had to happen." Where I know we're going to disagree, is that I think what happened was that Apple completely sold out and lost its way. Yes they will increase market share, yes they will appeal to geeks and casual user and create a mob of spinning-gear type geek aristocrat developers who will be able to turn a buck based on the general public having no friggin' clue about the arcane garbage that drives Apple's sexy hardware. That's what geeks DO. They make themselves essential, and then they ride that. The Mac--I'm talking the original Mac--blew that up. It busted the con. It said that we don't NEED geeks, we can do it ourselves. If the interface is good enough, if the software works well enough, computers can be used by EVERYONE. And used well. The legacy Mac was a great equalizer. Today, OS X is not. Today it's a way to exploit. A way to lever our Mac Loyalty and advantage-take. It's a con. The personal computer running OS X is nothing more than that. In fact, it's not really a personal computer as much as it is a SERVER. And a friggin' SERVER always implies that there's somebody up at the top of the food chain calling the shots. Unfortunately, that's no longer you. People will make money off this con. Some people already are. But sorry, it ain't good honest money. It ain't a product that's giving you and me the technological tools to liberate our creativity or get work done. Nah-ah, sorry. What's happened here is clear to anyone who frequents this place. The Mac has become dumbed down in key ways. And ALL of those ways are about taking true computing power out of your hands, and putting power and leverage in the hands of people who think they are smarter than you. Who see you as nothing more than a chimp who can be easily parted with their money. I've spent a shitload of money on a lot of upgrades and new software and there's not a single app I've purchased where I felt I got my money's worth. Not one. OS X is one of the greatest scams of all time. Imagine if you will an operating system that makes more money, the worse it works. The more it makes you twiddle it and customize it... the more freakin' WIDGETS it puts in your face to distract you... the more unfinished a work in progress it is... the more arcane and bloated and easy to break it is...well, the more you have to spend on it. What Apple's created, my brothers, is most certainly NOT working software. It's just a money pit. A gaping, sucking vortex. One where crap breeds crap, and nobody will ever sit up and say "hey, this is BULLSHIT!" and because of that, nothing will ever be finished. We live in the "age of the work in progress." The brilliance of the con I don't dispute, never have. I merely dispute it on the grounds that it's wrong. It's dishonest, manipulative, and dishonorable. Apple software doesn't really have to work hard, it just has to LOOK like it works. And when you're a pro, there's a huge difference between looking like it works, and really working. I've always said that OS X looks to me like an operating system that was built just so you could show a few cool things off to your friends. Crap like the slow genie-suck, or transparent terminal windows. Shit that doesn't make a lick of sense, but which makes people go oooh and ahhh. Apps don't have to work WELL, they just need a big, sexy, over-rendered icon. And face it, it's cheaper and easier to make big sexy icons than it is to write software and operating systems that perform intuitively and brilliantly. Nothing in the Mac performs brilliantly. Nothing is fast, nothing is a time-saver or a work-saver. It's all a big fat smelly diaper-load, groaning under its own weight. Apple made decisions about what we, the user base, wants and needs in a computer. But unfortunately they started with the presumption that we're all idiots who don't know any better. Where did they GET that idea? The PC world. The Marketeers pointed to the fact that the WORLD appears happier with a crappy, arcane, counterintuitive and barely functional operating system like Windows, so to hell with 'em. They BLAMED the low market share of the legacy Mac on the fact that John and Jane Q. Public didn't "Get" what the Mac was about, that they were too stupid. When that wasn't the case at all. Nope. The reason Windows reigned and reigns supreme had nothing to do with it being BETTER. Just more pervasive. Oh, uh, and cheaper I might add. Well, and so that's where Apple went. Dumb down and appeal to the lowest common denominator, and make money off'n fools. Don't provide a great interface to WORK with, because lord knows, we're all too stupid to get work done. So make computers something for rapacious CONSUMERS, rather than producers. Designers? Fuck 'em, we'll do the designing FOR them. We'll make it boilerplate, we'll do templates. We'll be like a big porno-site clearinghouse. We'll sell the frameworks, and the consumers can fill in a bit of the content with their digi-cams, and bullshit. Everywhere we turn, the personal computer is becoming less of a tool for us to USE, and more of a WAY to sell us bullshit. And the best way to sell us software, is to point out how unworthy and stupid we are, and that's how these con-men can stay in the driver's seat. Blame the victim, keep 'em on the hook, keep the product broken and the upgrade money will keep flowing in. Be honest now, how many of you out there buy software because it's the best tool for the job, and how many upgrade hoping that the software will someday DO what you want? There's a big difference. I have not yet met the OS X application that does THE JOB better, faster, etc. Or that makes me more productive. Sorry. Hate to break the news. All we do as Mac users, is fund the geek aristocracy so they can sit around with their thumbs up their ass and laugh at us. They don't have to complete anything, or even WORK AT ALL. All they have to do is sound smart and look busy. That's the state of the Mac Union. And until people stand up, and demand better, it's going to stay that way. We have to really and truly take stock of what Apple provides us with. And I'm sorry to say, it ain't all that much. A halfway decent music player, and music playing software. A halfway decent way to organize our photos. A visually superabundant, over-designed and underperforming unix-based OS. Butt slow, but based on a pervasive FREE technology which sort of equals a kind of compatibility, and gives the illusion of stability. But when it comes to APPLICATIONS that actually run as tools for a user, it all falls flat. Simple crap, like finding, fetching, all the passive server-y stuff, it's OK. Nothing amazing, just OK. But it's all passive. If you're a geek, your "active" stuff is all simple to do. I mean, come on, text editors are not that hard to write. They're simple. That ain't to say they can't be POWERFUL, but you don't really need much of a GUI. In my industry, you DO need a GUI. Creative types need elaborate, tool-based apps. They need less server, more of a responsive, real time tool with amazing user feedback. Big design apps need to be the FA-18's of applications. High performance, reliable, stable. Right now, they're not good enough. Why? The interface isn't good enough. It's too bolloxed up with bullshit. There's too many degrees of separation between what we need to do, and what the OS can handle. Everything in this OS happens as if every user action, every pixel we move east-west-north-south, is being translated into a lines upon lines of stupid Command-Line code, and parsed and then FINALLY spit back out at us... but it's too damn slow. And what, is thalo.net the only one to see this? No, we're just the only ones to complain. We're the only ones who refuse to crap-settle. We're not charmed by stupid widgets and special effects and eye candy. We see beyond that to how truly LACKING performance is. And how really terrible the interface is. A good interface is form meets function. It's what it needs to be to get the job done and no more. Is that Aqua? Pfffft. Aqua is all about distracting users... giving them such supersized overdone happy horseshit, that they never realize that the dog don't hunt. Apple is hoping we'll all get so involved with the façade, we'll never really care that nothing works. Well I do. And Mac OS X still doesn't work. It's still a piss-poor operating system, with an awful interface that's inconsistent and doesn't make any sense. It's counterintuitive and exists only as a marketing vehicle to get people brainwashed into the Mac world. Well, I remember the REAL Mac world, and this fake, con-job happy horseshit doesn't cut it. The Mac is little more than a casual use platform now, with some geek-friendly components. But it's all about taking advantage of computer users. Not about giving them good tools. After three years, the operating system is still inadequate for pro use. I work with it every day, I have to... and the OS has never, not one day, performed to even my lowest standards compared to the legacy. Not as far as applications go, and not as far as the Finder and file-management activities go. Certainly not in the interface department. And not in the type rendering department. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? What's the excuse for fonts being this bad after three plus years of development? I am sick to death of blurry upscaled fonts in the interface, and sick of fonts that go corrupt at the drop of a hat and bring down the OS. To me, the Mac needs to go right back to basics... start with a great interface. Based on true, intelligent HUMAN interface guidelines. It needs to be lean, mean, functional and responsive. Less is more. It has to do its job, and that's all. I don't need it to entertain me, make me laugh or cry or want to buy. It has to exist only because it's easier that typing shit in. Tiger is coming, and one of its great selling points is, hey guess what? You get to type more shit in! Oh puh-leeez. Somebody shoot me in the face. OK, after the interface is fixed, then comes the FINDER. The Finder used to BE the Mac, I used to love--and I mean love to the point of wanting to marry--the Finder. It was logical, consistent, and worked. It made sense. It behaved in clear, understandable ways that made my computer using experience easier and faster and better. Now the finder is just some bullshit that lets you look at your files a few different ways. If you want to DO anything with your files, like organize them, you are better off finding another way of dealing with them than the Finder, unless you want to drive yourself mental. OK, after the interface and Finder, we need Apps to run. Currently they don't. There ain't a Mac OS X app alive that works better and faster than its legacy counterpart, despite taking up twelve times more disk space than it ever did. In fact, everything is slower, less reliable, tool responsiveness is at an all time low. And WORST of all, the more you ask of an OS X application, the worse it behaves. I call this "good for a penny, not good for a pound" syndrome. RAMPANT in OS X. Ask a little, looks like it functions. Again, enough to impress a few casual onlookers... but really ask it to do some work, and BAM! It blows up in your face. Work with five files, OK, good enough. Work with five thousand, and you might as well drink kerosene with a lit match for a chaser. Next, fix the fonts. Fix type rendering. Make it clear, readable, crisp. Especially in the interface. At the very least, allow the user to make the type choices in the interface, and have control over the anti-aliasing... allowing bitmapped fonts at specific sizes, if that's going to be more readable. Lucida Blurry is getting on my nerves to the point where I want to buy a dog, name it Lucida, and kick it. When people say OS X works fine for them, all I can say is that they must not do any WORK. They must be making believe. Or they must be geeks, trying to look busy typing. If they are a graphic designer, and like OS X, all I can say is they must just putter around and do little tiny easy-peasey non-demanding jobs. And they must have all day to do squat. They must have really relaxed deadlines and must be able to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee in between moving things a few pixels to the left or to the right, nodding and going "hmmm, that works..." Because the Mac and Mac apps certainly don't work. I don't care how easy apps are to write, if they don't fucking work. You know what kills me about all these new apps that are easy to write? They don't DO anything valuable. Virtually all of them, are some bullshit you get to sit back and watch. Many of them do nothing more than slap some fancy graphics onto something that in the unix world was invoked by one command-line commmand. We're entering widget hell. We already have WAY too many clocks, calendars, weather-fetchers, dials, geegaws, bouncing indicators, diagnostics, all kinds of bullshit. Only now it is more colorful and takes up more space. If you're a twiddler, a person for whom watching gears spin or eyes follow is the cat's ass... well, you must be in hog heaven with OS X. Me? I think it's all nonsense. I have yet to see anything developed for this platform that can survive a day in the shredder. One day in the life of a real world designer. No, we have to CRAP SETTLE. For us, all that happy horseshit ain't nothing but an OBSTACLE to work. Distractions. Ga head and play music and look at animated desktop patterns, they're fun, but they don't help my apps run. Adobe, Macromedia, Quark, Maya, Strata, whatever... that's the stuff that matters to me. And managing all the files I generate. That's all I care about. I don't hate casual users for being casual users. I'm not judging them--no wait I am--but I'm pissed off at Apple for thinking they can get a free ride by merely catering to casual use, and leaving the pro-users who kept them alive during the dark ages, high and dry. Is it cool that we can make movies and play tunes? Yeah sure, but that's no excuse for Apple to stop doing their job. And when applications stop working well on this half-assed operating system, we need people to say something. We need to stop giving out free money to people who have lost all sense of creating working versions of software. Nobody holds anybody accountable for crap these days, and I'm sick of it. Just because Apple is smart enough to con some people into believing that crap is ice cream, doesn't mean *I'm* going to pick up a spoon and dive in. And so I'm saying what I believe. That this operating system isn't good enough. Never has been. The interface isn't good enough. Never has been. The Finder isn't good enough. Never has been. Application stability isn't good enough, never has been. The performance of the Mac isn't good enough, never has been since OS X. OS X is a big mess, that still needs some serious work. Making it good enough for casual use doesn't make it a good computer platform. There are Mac pros like me who need more. And who aren't going to rest until things get better. All I want is for shit to work, and work well. Unfortunately, nothing does. And I mean nothing. Nothing but iTunes, but I could give a rat's ass about that. I'd trade it in a heartbeat for friggin' FINDER that worked better and was faster and more capable, and less loaded with bullshit. Apple needs to go minimal. To tone it all down, and understand that less is more, and fast is better than slow. And that working is better than non-working. That stable is better than easy to break. OS X Sucks the big one. Aqua must die. Stability is a lie, if application stability isn't a part of it. Minimal and monochrome is better than huge, distracting, upsized and blurry. | |||
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| THALO.net novice |
Hey Thalo. Just wanted to let you know about something. Apparently, with OS X there is no con. Regular people can still use it to get regular work done, you know all the Desktop Publishing stuff. I know it sounds crazy and all but the command line is just totally extraneous. Just the other day I wanted to create a new document. Now after reading your latest post I thought, awww heck. I'm going to have to open the terminal and figure out how to open Microsoft Word via some arcane text command. But lo and behold the GUI was still there? And you know what else? Just like on OS 9, or even OS 8,7,6...all I had to do was locate the Microsoft Word icon on my desktop and....click on it. What happened next was truly amazing. The program loaded! Just like that! I then proceeded to use the program and just to push my luck, see if printing would work. Because I figured, there's no way thalo could be talking out of his ass here. I mean no one who writes that much text would risk being wrong about every single thing. So he's gotta be right. The print command would simply refuse to work and instead re-direct me to the command line where I could enter the print command "properly". But the surprises continued. I pushed Apple+P just like I have with Macs since 1986....and it worked. Don't give up hope yet tho thalo. I have a team of my best people working on why you were so wrong about OS X and the best result we can come to so far is that you come from an alternate dimension, a mirror universe if you will. In that universe OS X really does suck as opposed to the OS X in *OUR* reality which simply rocks. Your computer must still have an open connection to that dark, profane mirror universe. As soon as the propeller heads over here at NDPTAL Labs figure out a why to send you back, we'll let you know. I have returned. | |||
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| Master Baiter |
LOL, brother NDP, that was funny. You know, I get that a lot, people wonder why I am having such a tough time with Aqua and the OS X Finder, and all my apps. They don't see what I see, don't crash like I crash, don't endure the endless beachballing like I do. All I can say is, they're not pros. They are, in fact, like you say "regular" people. Whatever that means. My issue with Apple, is that THEY seem to think "regular people" means people who don't DO MUCH with computers. So they don't bother making anything high performance. I wish we could all sit in on an Apple marketing session, because I know what we'd hear. I just know it. We'd hear a lot about what "regular" people do, and how they do it. What Apple thinks "regular" people feel is important in a personal computer. And I guaran-damn-tee you, that you'd walk away from such a meeting feeling insulted. And with good reason. Because the people calling the shots at Apple right now, are not on "regular" people's side. In fact, I maintain that they think "regular" people are friggin' retards. Rubes, who you can satisfy as long as your icons are big and overdesigned. I mean, why waste money on getting software engineers to make programs that function, when you can merely skin them up with a fancy GUI and charm everyone with eye candy... con them into believing things work, simply because they look the part? Well, pros know. We know. We know when things are slow. We know when things don't function. We know when things break easily and when applications become unreliable. We know when interfaces are inconsistent and poorly conceived and designed. We know when workflows do not increase productivity, we see when our time is being wasted. OS X can fool a lot of these so called "regular" people. But it can't fool pros. Nah-ah. Ga head and defend it all you want to. I work with it every day, sometimes all friggin' day without sleep trying to make a deadline, and I know when it's not up to the task. I know when it's "good for a penny, and not good for a pound". You may not experience my hell, and it's probably because you don't do as much as I do. You may have forty files to manage, where I have forty thousand. You may use ten fonts, where I use ten times ten times ten. You may spend your time farting around in Word, while I've got twenty projects going on at the same time, using commercial design apps that you don't. I really don't know or care. All I know is that, having used a Mac since the Mac first came out, the quality of the user experience, and the performance of the Finder has gone way downhill. The reliability and performance of all my design apps is piss poor because of this operating system. I'm sick of the bugs, wasted clicks, poor visual feedback, lousy blurry font rendering, prefnesia, font unreliability, horrible organization of functionality, the distracting overdesigned interface, and crappy, counterintuitive workflows. Most of all, I'm really surprised more of you aren't up in arms about how friggin' SLOW this beast is. How unfinished and beta-feeling it is. I'm shocked at how you all shrug your shoulders at how amazingly little this OS lives up to its hype. How it still feels like just a proposal for a proposal, a fucking demo. But the minute you really try to PRODUCE on it, it flies apart at the seams. I don't recall ever saying anyone HAD to use the command line. But I do recall saying that I myself have used it for larger file management tasks that tend to choke the Finder. Do I LIKE doing that? No. The other thing I'll do is boot into the legacy, where at least I can work in the Finder rapidly. It's kind of a poor man's superuser environment, and I recommend it for housecleaning and file organization if you have lots to do. Because the OS X Finder really is painfully slow if you are dealing with a lot of files. Even a little bit of scrolling will invoke the beachball. That doesn't happen in Platinum. Listen my brother, you're never, ever going to convince me that OS X rocks, because I use it more than you do, and I know the truth. I can't deny my own experience. This reminds me of Lloyd Bentsen's quip to Dan Quayle: "I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." I've used the Mac OS, I knew the Mac OS, the Mac OS was a friend of mine. OS X, you're no Mac OS. | |||
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