I've come time after time to thalo.net only to find uninteresting topics. Where are the hot discussions!? The OS X Silly Thread? Come on!!

Thalo.net is as dead as macfixit's tech issues forum

Maybe if some "X-men" had balls (like johnq and Thundarr), and didn't view those who criticize OS X as the devil, we'd have greater variety here and subsequent interesting and passionate postings. Seemingly, a good number of them are too sensitive to read about OS X being portrayed as less than perfect. Marching in step is a full time job.

It's too bad, because what I always saw as constructive and often humorous and playful discourse, they conveniently saw as mean-spirited and trolling if only to stifle us.

Wait until Panther comes out...there'll be plenty of discussion then.

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Thalo.net is dead

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I'm not dead yet.

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Oh brave thalo.net, having been mortally wounded...

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I, I think I could recover.

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Thalo.net, who, when it looked as if he would recover, suddenly felt the icy hand of death...

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Arrrggggg!!!

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Where are the hot discussions!? The OS X Silly Thread? Come on!!

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I didn't realize you had been banned, Trif.o

What do you have in mind? Something more like the Battlefront over at Ars? Something like the heydays at MFI? What would you like to discuss? Start a thread, maybe the few who do visit, and the fewer who post, will take the ball and run with it. Personally, I think the critical mass is too low for super variety (having a job and other responsibilities doesn't often leave much time to dally at thalo.net). But that is a chicken and egg dilemma. Variety of topics might interest a larger variety of people, but without a larger variety of people there might not be a wider variety of topics. I also think some people are tired of the debate and don't have the long term desire to hash out the complexities and/or trivialities concerning the GUI, which is the raison d'etre for thalo.net.

Darr said:

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I also think some people are tired of the debate and don't have the long term desire to hash out the complexities and/or trivialities concerning the GUI, which is the raison d'etre for thalo.net.

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I think this site is just good therapy. From day one it was obvious (at least to me) that thalo.net was a losing cause. Not that losing causes are losing causes. What would the world be like without people knowingly taken up things that seemed like long shots? But it's a losing cause because in the Mac world (if not pop culture in general) people find it easier to reshuffle their beliefs and expectations than to, say, expect a for-profit company to do the reshuffling. We've become slaves of fashion. Dress it up enough and hope they never stop to ask why. But above all, the graphic design sensibility that had both driven (and sometimes limited) the Mac OS, has been squashed under the jack boot of the techies who then found natural allies in the pop superficial designers who also view us all as dip shit consumers just waiting to consume.

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Originally posted by SnobbyRobby:
Maybe if some "X-men" had balls (like johnq and Thundarr), and didn't view those who criticize OS X as the devil, we'd have greater variety here and subsequent interesting and passionate postings. Seemingly, a good number of them are too sensitive to read about OS X being portrayed as less than perfect. Marching in step is a full time job.

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moi???? I'm all kinds of critical of Apple/Jobs/Mac OS X/Apple-ologists and open-minded...

"I'd far prefer more nitpicky, ferocious criticism (such as on thalo.net) than the roll on your back acceptance...they (crap settlers) are the reason columns aren't frigging sortable etc..."

"Oh I get it, it's not customisable. Yeah, way to "solve" that problem, Steve."

Re: Labels in Panther: "Of course the real solution is to implement them as they were originally" and "Apple's just stubbornly changing for change's sake."

Re: eyecandy: "I'm comisserating and lamenting the fluff over true quality."

"I in the old days the UI if not OS was rock solid and for the most part "done". I mean it did what it set out to do. It was whole. No, it didn't do the modern stuff but then it wasn't designed to. I mean the UI was nearly completely thought out. Now it is merely playing catch up to it's predecessor (as much as Steve's pride will allow) at best and also going off on tangents."

"I do admit it's not meeting certain crucial Mac user's needs."

"Panther is far better than the Public beta yet still not as good as Mac OS 9 for certain things and in certain ways."

"I'm not re-subscribing to .mac...."

"So long as we don't drool over or worship previous or current OS -implementations- (I mean that at any time it's a living organism, evolving and never "done") no matter how useful or enticing or glitzy or staid, we can craft better OSes...even if it means putting heat on Apple by murmuring that XP or Linux has innovative feature X that the Mac needs. But that's playing catchup. We can play catch up to Mac OS 9 too. And we need to I would agree. But at some point we need to move into other areas, perhaps questioning how the GUI concept can be improved, furthered or surpassed."

"But complaining, while our right, should at least strive to give the user more options, not less. Depriving others of commandline would be as outrageous as depriving people of voice input, or mouse/tablet input. We need to add to our arsenal, not subtract from it. I would gladly endorse an operating system that was customizable to the extent that my Mac could have no trace of voice control or commandline code (or whatever the user did and didn't want)."

"Limiting Macs to only run Mac OS X is the insidious ploy we should be complaining about, not conspiracy theories that the OS was sabotaged to boost hardware sales. The Motorola chips simply didn't ramp up the way Apple was promised they would, and the new Quartz glitz suddenly was more bottleneck than marketing gold. Of course they could have kept Platinum ala Mac OS X server earlier's versions with a toggle for Aqua....but NOOOOO.... I feel your pain."

Re: Ars Battlefront politcal correctness and mollycoddling sensitive Mac OS X lovers: "People need to grow some callous in their newbie asses....Of course (Ars Technica have) the "right" to do whatever (they want to do on their own forum). But that includes making it a politically correct minefield (that people are too afraid or angered to use). A society of posters that lie and skirt issues and don't speak truth for fear of reprisal. Feh."

Re: Users that bitch to admins about too much Mac OS X/Apple/Jobs criticism: "ugh, it's really the tattle-tales and the mee-toos that are the worst. The little yapping dogs that tail after the big bulldog."

Criticising Apple commercials: "Yet another damned Apple advertisment that has no distinctive music or narration at the beginning, only right at the end." and "How about waiting for the frigging things to ship befor bragging?"

"Ugh, the whole UI backend needs to be written from scratch. It depends on far too many bitmaps and should be easier to modify." and "No, I'm not a metal fan."

"...the system forgets prebinding all the time."

Hey john....big oops on my part. I worded that incorrectly. What I meant to say was that you and Thundarr are two of the few so called X-men who have the balls to have open discussion and are objective instead of being overly defensive about OS X/Apple/Jobs.

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Originally posted by SnobbyRobby:
Hey john....big oops on my part. I worded that incorrectly. What I meant to say was that you and Thundarr are two of the few so called X-men who have the balls to have open discussion and are objective instead of being overly defensive about OS X/Apple/Jobs.

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Aw, man, I wasted my offensively defensive quote barrage for nothing?

Now thalo and Brad are gonna know I'm really an X-Critic....

Anyway I see now that I misread you! I saw "Maybe if some 'X-men' (like johnq and Thundarr) had balls ..."

<reaches down and checks> Still got my nuts...under my Freudian slip...

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What I meant to say was that you and Thundarr are two of the few so called X-men who have the balls to have open discussion and are objective instead of being overly defensive about OS X/Apple/Jobs.

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You mean like this?

Roberts, who is unemployed, said he timed his streak for the moment the umpire shouted "new balls please".

Ya gotta love a creative streaker.

John, are you sure it said "Aqua Sucks" on his chest? Could that not have been thalo at Macworld Expo with the message "less is more"?

I'd paid to see that. On second thought, I might pay NOT to see that.

Okay waite a minute.

Let's see if Snobby is not talking about TMJQ or Miths/Darr then the only so called X-man left around here is me.

So screw you SnobbyRobby.

I apologize for no one except the occasional gaseous cloud.

Snobby a while ago my internet connection and ability to send and recieve mail attachments was really hurting. After a little digging I found out that the problem was my router and something called the mtu settings. I had to enable mtu set them at something below 1500. I settled on 1492. Thought I would pass on the info. I am not sure if it is dsl or cable specific but it made a world of difference for my dsl connection.

Screw me? You tawkin ta me? No, buddy, screw you!

Actually, it was a big oversight on my part, my friend.

To whomever takes care of such things: Add RICO to the "Men With Balls" list, please.

BTW, I tried your 1492 MTU setting on my firewall router for my cable connection; tested it on dslreports.com's "tweak test" and the results suggested that I set it to 1500 (which was my original setting).

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. -Einstein.

The X-Men aren't afraid and they aren't brownosers. What we are is, satisifed. Mac OS X is what we need it to be and has been for some time. That being said whats the point of constantly engaging in this:

X-Man: OS X rocks.
X-Critic: No it doesn't.
X-Man: Yes it does.
X-Critic: No it doesn't, stop kissing Steve's butt!
X-Man: You're just a whiner niner!
X-Critic: (What proceeds is one of Thalo's 5 Billion word posts)
X-Man: Did you really have to write all that just to repeat what you've already said a thousand times before?
X-Critic: Hey man, this site is all about Freedom Of Speech! Arguments! Discourse! By using more words than a Yiddish Bible we will be able to create a webpage loaded down with enough words to make it so heavy it rips a hole in the space time continuum and falls out of the sky on top of Steve Job's head thus killing him dead! Ergo Apple is saved.
X-Man: Ok thats enough for me I'm gonna go for a while now.
X-Critic: Coward! Quit trying to stifle discourse! Come back and FIGHT/ARGUE LIKE A MAN!
X-Man: You mean sit here while you lecture all those who have committed the sin of not hating OS X on first look and are actually happy with it that the only way to save Apple, Sacred GUI Design principles that no one has cared about in the last 15 years and the Republic itself is if we join you on your Jihad against Aqua?
X-Critic: Yes, now you've got it!
X-Man: Yup just what I thought. Like I said I'm going now.
X-Critic: Traitor! Coward!
X-Man: Buh-bye.
X-Critic: THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF CENSORSHIP!
X-Man: NO CARRIER.
X-Critic: This persecution of the anti-OS X lobby MUST END IMMEDIATELY!

What new topics have been added to the debate since 2 years ago? Since 1.5 years ago? Since 6 months ago? When Apple is hosting OS X's 15th anniversary will you still be here complaining about the same things?

So in conclusion I don't see how a reluctance to engage in willfull and ineffectual repetition is indicative of not having "balls".

I have returned.

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X-Man: OS X rocks.

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No it doesn't.

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X-Man: You're just a whiner niner!

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If that means recognizing that the legacy is better for pro use, yes, yes I am.

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X-Man: Did you really have to write all that just to repeat what you've already said a thousand times before?

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Yes.

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X-Man: Ok thats enough for me I'm gonna go for a while now.

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Bye.

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X-Man: You mean sit here while you lecture all those who have committed the sin of not hating OS X on first look and are actually happy with it that the only way to save Apple, Sacred GUI Design principles that no one has cared about in the last 15 years and the Republic itself is if we join you on your Jihad against Aqua?

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Yes, now you've got it!

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X-Man: Yup just what I thought. Like I said I'm going now.

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Bye.

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X-Man: Buh-bye.

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Bye.

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What new topics have been added to the debate since 2 years ago? Since 1.5 years ago? Since 6 months ago? When Apple is hosting OS X's 15th anniversary will you still be here complaining about the same things?

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If the problems remain, yes, yes I will.

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So in conclusion I don't see how a reluctance to engage in willfull and ineffectual repetition is indicative of not having "balls".

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Nobody's making you engage in squat. Nobody handcuffed you to your computer, nobody has magic powers over you. You're here of your own accord. You are the one who brought up your balls, not me. Why do you care so much about what anybody thinks of your balls? You seem all broken up over repetitive stuff, but that doesn't stop you from giving us the same old long goodbye time after time.

Instead of engaging in repetitive banter or toeing the party line, why not get something out of the potential discourse. Why not ask X-critics for ideas about HOW they would make things better, what their design concepts would be? These are intelligent guys with experience, they can come up with better ways of designing an OS. Why not use ideas you might have for improvements to steer the conversation as well? It doesn't have to be OSX rocks out of every X-man. And you don't have to fight every time over whether you are a pro or not if you use OSX. I am sure there are things you would like improved, at least that is true for me. So why not offer those up for discussion? It seems a shame to dismiss the potential of engaging those of opposing opinion because you aren't willing to shed your own rhetoric and move towards a more constructive balance in the discourse.

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Hey man, this site is all about Freedom Of Speech! Arguments! Discourse! By using more words than a Yiddish Bible we will be able to create a webpage loaded down with enough words to make it so heavy it rips a hole in the space time continuum and falls out of the sky on top of Steve Job's head thus killing him dead! Ergo Apple is saved.

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However, that was pretty funny.

Hey man, this site is all about Freedom Of Speech! Arguments! Discourse! By using more words than a Yiddish Bible we will be able to create a webpage loaded down with enough words to make it so heavy it rips a hole in the space time continuum and falls out of the sky on top of Steve Job's head thus killing him dead! Ergo Apple is saved.

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However, that was pretty funny.

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How the hell did he find out my plan? Yes, that IS very funny, Darr. Great stuff.

<< When Apple is hosting OS X's 15th anniversary will you still be here complaining about the same things? >>

No, I'll be occupied with the much less surprising phenomenon of watching monkeys flying out of my butt.

Actually, by then what's left of Apple (if anything) will be introducing OS XV for both of its remaining customers. And they'll be talking in reverent hushed tones about what a genius Steve Jobs, Jr. is, and how they welcome the wonderful new OS because X, XI, XII, XIII, and XIV were crap, and good riddance.

Markle