On the eve of Panthers release one thing that resonated months ago was a statement made by Steve that the Finder Window would take on a look and function much like the layout of iTunes. At the time I did not know how I felt about this. Why the change?

Apple just released iTunes the best app for windows.

Panther.

Let the debaiting begin.

Can you rephrase this? I'm not sure what your point is/points are.

Sincerely,
The Almighty johnq
Thalo.net's official Master-debaiter.

I'm with the mighty one; that just does not parse.

I see a bit of long term marketing in the works. Why make the Finder more like iTunes? I had found it odd at the time that Jobs would phrase the change to the Finder as more like iTunes.

The release of iTunes to windows is probably in most cases the first exsposure Windows users will have ever had with an Apple application. The App Windows users are being exposed to is now going to be much like the main tool used to navigate the Mac OS.

quote:

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I see a bit of long term marketing in the works. Why make the Finder more like iTunes? I had found it odd at the time that Jobs would phrase the change to the Finder as more like iTunes.

The release of iTunes to windows is probably in most cases the first exsposure Windows users will have ever had with an Apple application. The App Windows users are being exposed to is now going to be much like the main tool used to navigate the Mac OS.

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Well, apart from the blood-sucking incremental upgrade costs for OS X updates, the purpose of Mac software has always been to sell hardware. That's the main point of iTunes for Windows…to sell iPods. A secondary effect would be to expose people to Macness but that's what the Apple Stores are for. I think what you'll see in the future is an increasing attitude of "Fuck this!" as lower sales of Mac computers leads to further emphasis on consumer gadgets as opposed to "serious" work computers.

Listen, anyone who has made billions from such passive entertainment as Toy Story and other Pixar movies is still going to smell blood in the water for this type of thing. That's what they think is their path to glory. What's happening now though is that Apple is getting mixed messages and I don't think they understand them. The iPod is a big hit and it's apparently a very fine product. But what they're also doing is skimming off sales from the most faithful of the Mac faithful while they turn more and more to pre-packaged stuff and less and less to harnessing the strengths of a general-purpose computer. It would be the same thing if Adobe (and they have done this in some respects) starting beefing up Illustrator to the point where 90% of the features were geared toward web development. The print side of things would be neglected until – oops – the web bubble bursts (which it did).

Well, the web ain't going away tomorrow and it's not likely that passive entertainment will either, but I think Apple is going to paint themselves into a corner if they try to make the Mac a special purpose "digital hub". Now, if they could do that and sell the units for $300, X-Box style, then they could probably do it. But they'll never do it while they're pricing things higher than Wintel. All they will do is skim off the Mac faithful until that source dries up and then move onto "the next big thing." Where that leaves people who need some predictability as to where their platform is going is up shit stream and over to Windows.

That's why you see the comparison of the Mac Finder to iTunes. I'm sure they have a sign somewhere in Apple that says "It's the gadgets, stupid!" They really don't believe anymore that their computers can stack up to Windows as a general purpose computer meant for running a wide variety of software. They're moving it more and more into the high-end consumer market and what we have now (the ability to run some pro Mac software such as Photoshop) is a needed remnant until this new plan can support itself. In the meantime we're told that OS X is just as friendly as ever and has the power of Unix.

Be prepared to be jerked around for a long time if you stay with the Mac platform…in my humble opinion, of course.

Why make Panther more like iTunes?

Because iTunes is the only thing good about Mac OS X. The only thing that's truly successful, the only software that works well with its hardware. The only thing that's truly spawned markets and gone onto bigger and better things. The iTunes music store has been a whopping success, and these guys are flush with that.

In lieu of "switchers" who have been portrayed as total doofi, it's WAY more likely to win over a few Windows people to what's best about the Mac without making them leave their platform.

Brother Brad is right, it's about the gadgets. OS X is nothing more than a backdrop for iTunes. Passive entertainment is the wave of the future. Music just happens to be the only part of the digital hub strategy that paid off.

Sorry, my brethren, but Apple can't hide where most of the work went. As much as we want them to build on the strength of the legacy for usability and user friendliness... what's happening is that the marketeers are in charge now. The strengths that are being built on are what's new and novel, what attracts the chimps the best. And that's music, music, music.

Lookit, we've basically all have got computers that don't work anymore. Being asked to buy more powerful new computers that won't work either. All we've GOT that really works is iTunes. This is a shameless play to the single thing about OS X that has chops.

quote:

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Originally posted by thalo:
...what's happening is that the marketeers are in charge now. The strengths that are being built on are what's new and novel, what attracts the chimps the best. And that's music, music, music.

Lookit, we've basically all have got computers that don't work anymore. Being asked to buy more powerful new computers that won't work either. All we've GOT that really works is iTunes. This is a shameless play to the single thing about OS X that has chops.

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With all due respect - puhLEEZ

You really, really, really need to walk around and look at what other people are doing in Mac OS X. Granted you yourself might have had problems (aside from aesthetic/subjective issues) and MacFixIt certainly has it's share of threads about Mac OS X problems, but to get all pouty-poo-poo just because there happens to be an iTunes/iPod push, is ridiculous.

Did you scoff at the iMac for being to non-pro? No, somehow you saw that it catered to certain Mac users. You somehow understood that there are more people that use the Mac than print pros.

I mean, in 2003 Apple makes the following PRO applications:

Shake 3: $4,950.00
Shake 3 Linux: $9,900 (annual maintenance fee of $1485)
DVD Studio Pro 2: $499.00
Final Cut Pro 4: $999.00
Soundtrack: $299.00
Keynote: $99.00
WebObjects 5.2: $699.00
Mac OS X Server: (10-Client) $499.00

DVD. Video. Audio. Multimedia. Web. Programming.

So, this is where your print myopia really takes over. You feel like a Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, shunned, while everyone else plays. "Ha! Look! His business is PAPERBASED! Let's all laugh at him!!" <everyone laughs>

Print simply doesn't fit into Apple's plans. It is a peripheral "bonus" to them if Quark/InDesign "happen" to run on Mac OS X, then great. But don't expect any marketing push the size of iPod for Quark updates.

So, you are right but you are wrong. The Mac -is- pro-level, Apple -does- still cater to pros, just not you, not print pros. And they never will more than they are now.

If anything, what is happening is the same that is happening in the overall economy. Death of the middle class. Now we have only 2 camps: Newbie and Super-Pro.

I am a pro, but I'm like you, a middle class pro. I can't afford a G4 let alone a G5. I have none of the above apps except Keynote (note that it's $99).

Apple knows we'll get by on Adobe/Macromedia/Microsoft. We tend not to use iApps much nor the super-pro Apple apps.

But we don't need marketing blitzes of iPod magnitude to get us to use BBEdit, Transmit, Photoshop. Those are all given. No advertising needed.

The super-pros, too, know what they need. No need to heavily market those things on TV iPod-style, since the prices and technical prowess required would turn off the masses.

But you are a sensitive creature, oh print pro. You chafe at hearing your beloved Apple courting newer users with various shiny allurements and iSop.

Printy Print Pro: "But-but I helped you from the beginning! Remember the desktop publishing revolution? Wasn't that exciting?"

Apple: "Honey, I've moved on. Laptops and Hiptops are what's now. Clusters and gloss, baby. I'm poofing you off my Dock. Stop iChatting me."

<Hey Mama plays> <fade to black>

In the end, I can offer no comforting words, oh inkmaster.

When Apple comes out with iPaper, paper-thin polymer sheets of programmable, wireless displays, I will truly weep for thee.

[This message was edited by the mighty johnq on Mon October 20 2003 at 11:56 AM.]

Hey wait, mighty one...
first off, I ain't print ONLY, no way. That's a mischaracterization. Print is just a part of what I do. An important part, but a part. I am just as hopped up about design for any and all media as anyone. I live for it. Second of all, there's obviously somebody all pouty-poo here, but it ain't me.

I see all the promise and potential of OS X as much as the most rabid X-Man. I merely argue that much of what we have now is totally bogus, on account of a weak operating system. One that, unfortunately seems to not be up to the tak of serious pro use of ANY kind where you have to rely on anything other than the terminal. Because some people are crap-settling, doesn't mean there's anywhere near the quality pros need to deploy and adopt OS X in any serious way. If OS X was adoptable, I'd certainly adopt. If Panther is adoptable, I'll adopt. But when what we get for our trouble is software that doesn't do anything even remotely well or serious, unless you stay in the legacy, it's tough to take the platform seriously.

Furthermore, while I goof on chimps and digikids, it doesn't mean I see iTunes and all the casual use stuff as the enemy. I don't. I goof the way I do because Apple is so completely looking down its nose at the casual market. Dumbing down and downtalking, and exploiting... which drive me crazy. I've said it before and I'll say it again: start going after Apple for insulting you, not thalo. Because while I'm just baiting, they're in it for real. They really think you ARE chimps.

I've also said there's absolutely no good reason that casual use can't co-exist with pro use. The problem is, when the pro stuff SUFFERS because of the casual (when the casual could become SUPERIOR on account of the pro). The problem is a lazy, half-assed operating system that's bloated and largely bullshit. To get the passive entertainment crap to fly, almost everything important has become mortgaged.

Take me, is the fact that I can fire up iTunes and play a Liz Phair record while I'm working a bad thing? Fuck no. I love that. I don't hate iTunes for being good and groovy and excellent passive entertainment. I'm pissed off at Apple for not making a better, more pro capable operating system.

Listing off pro applications is all well and good, there are many others not made by Apple. And yet, not a single one of them works better in OS X than it does in its legacy counterpart.

The problem, as it has been since day 1 of this crusade, is that OS X is not good enough. Not even close. It's not reliable enough, not stable enough, not fast or intelligent enough. The design of the interface sucks, and the interface consistency we used to have in the legacy is gone. The product of the MacOS has taken a dramatic hit in quality. We can argue about the whys, but the fact is, it has. As an operating system, pro or not, but mostly pro... it sucks at everything. I mean it's really bad. And worse if you're a pro and have to ask a lot of it.

And listen, if I could get by on Adobe/Macromedia/Microsoft; plus Quark and Strata and a few others, I'd be friggin' FINE. But I wouldn't call this period even remotely "getting by"... not with an OS that can't keep track of me, my files, or its own damn self.

A sensitive creature? Screw that, brother mighty. I ain't sensitive. What I am is DEMANDING. Crap-intolerant. I don't believe for the sake of believing. I refuse to dance around the main issue: that OS X is not good enough. Yes, I can see bright sides and hope and wish like anybody else. But when push comes to shove, when the software is installed and doesn't come through, something is wrong.

Ga head and blame the victim like every other X-Man, but the fact is, this operating system should work as good for me as it does for a newbie digikid or a gearhead geek. It shouldn't fall apart because I ask more of it.

And there's also no friggin' excuse for the interface to be so poorly designed, and such a slug for responsiveness. No excuse for blurry fonts and bugs and services that don't work and all of the crap we've been dealing with for three years.

You can take your comforting words, and chuck them in the crapper with all of Apple's broken promises. I don't need comforting words, I need software that works. Without lies, without bullshit, without excuses and caveats and requiring me to nursemaid it or baby it. Without trying to con me every step of the way with spinning gears nonsense that nobody really needs, but that nobody can turn the fuck off.

The kicker is, I can afford a G5. I could get one tomorrow. And probably would if they were dual boot. But unless Panther is pro-capable, it would make no sense. And to be perfectly fair, I'm not sure that WITHOUT a G5, if I'll be able to determine if it is. Because after working trying to get my new SATA hard drives to work, I've seen the light, that 64-bit is not a luxury when you're dealing with an OS as bloated as this one, it's an absolute necessity. Our only hope of getting anywhere back close to legacy performance.

Which in and of itself is enough to make me cry. Imagine if all that freakin' power could have been used for MY work instead of Aqua and OS X's bullshit?

Points taken and corrections duly noted.

I won't be happy until your happy.

I too can afford a G5 but love the perversity of doing my company's $150k worth of work through a $1700 iBook. I even have Coldfusion/JRUN running on it. So now I can do Coldfusion, Flash and some SQL stuff on an iBook without being online. Twisted. I'm sure Apple is bleeding cash from my stinginess. But I won't buy a G5 until a few Panther updates later.

iPhoto and iMovie are hopelessly simplistic for my needs and yet Final Cut Pro is out of reach. I'm not tempted to get FCP lite either.

Sadly Apple doesn't do much OS UI design anymore. It's just "skin-tweaking". They have one or 2 skins and they brazenly tweak it in full view of the public, on our dime.

Rather than take a methodical approach, crafting a truly superb, consistent, logical UI, and then unveiling it with a definitive air of authority, firmly believing in the rightness and goodness of the work they've created, they instead whore it out to the corner every night to see who whistles at it, who plops down another $129 for a quicky. If no takers, then just change the wig color and make the skirt shorter.

quote:

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But I won't buy a G5 until a few Panther updates later.

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I feel the same way. And it's never been smart to jump at the first rev of any hardware. I've done it, but I've always regretted it.

I find iMovie hopelessly simplistic too. But it's not crap for what it is. A home use app. None of the iApps are out-and-out AWFUL. iCal, which I feel I really feedbacked the heck out of to try and get Apple to do a good calendar app... ends up being a disappointment. It could be great if it took more of the old Mosaic Codes "Cal" approach. Less is more, one friggin' input window. And sorry, but I hate hate hate the stupid labels which are of iCal origin.

iPhoto I actually use... just to suck in stuff from my digital camera, look at, and then export. The Nikon software I'd normally use just for that doesn't do well in OS X. But I find myself actually booting into X to get my pics off the camera. I really don't have all that many problems with iPhoto except it's fairly certain it was not designed with pros in mind. What could make iPhoto terrific is more batch-filenaming routines and more automatic organization into time-and-date based directories. But the intent is to interconnect the app with .mac and make it a kind of point-of-purchase for horseshit.

Where that wouldn't bother me as much? Fonts. Go from the font manager to foundries. An iTunes music store for fonts. I'd rather
Adobe did it, but to be fair to the other foundries, it might be better for Apple to be the storefront after all.

I was thinking, since it's all heading this way... I'll betcha there's a way we could turn this point of purchase stuff to our advantage in the age of the work in progress: namely, lobby with our product loyalty. As in, OK, we'll license your software and get upgrades from you, but we want upgrades to be FREE, a subscription built in to the licensing fee. Maybe for a period of time (years).

I'm sick of paying good money for terrible upgrades again and again and again. Everything these days is released with huge issues and as soon as you get a disk in the mail, you need another. There has to be a way to protect us from that.

It's getting tough for Apple to justify the $129. Getting tougher for software companies to justify upgrade prices. If what we're buying is always works-in-progress, with no major stable release ever... then our licenses should include upgrades in perpetuity. Or subscriptions to upgrades for serious periods of time so the developer can't spring them on us by surprise right after we license and still try to charge us.

quote:

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Print simply doesn't fit into Apple's plans. It is a peripheral "bonus" to them if Quark/ InDesign "happen" to run on Mac OS X, then great. But don't expect any marketing push the size of iPod for Quark updates.

So, you are right but you are wrong. The Mac -is- pro-level, Apple -does- still cater to pros, just not you, not print pros. And they never will more than they are now.

---

I agree, although you said it much better, Oh Mighty One.

quote:

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If anything, what is happening is the same that is happening in the overall economy. Death of the middle class. Now we have only 2 camps: Newbie and Super-Pro.

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I'm not sure about the death of the middle class in the economy but I get your analogy, and it's a good one, and it's similar to what I've been saying for a while now. OS X seems to cater to utter newbies/DigiKids/dumb shits/stylish wanna be's, or on the other end of the spectrum, to command line geeks. The middle class is being driven to Windows and apparently it's "good riddance" to them (although they are the true cash cow for Apple). This identify crisis goes to the very core of what is wrong with Apple and OS X these days. They needn't promote one segment of the market to the exclusion of the other but that's exactly what they're doing. It's stupid and self-defeating.

Setting aside some of the architectural problems brother thalo and others are having, it would take five minutes to explain to Apple how to change OS X to overcome 90% of the resistance to it. Five minutes – if that. In fact we've been giving them just this feedback for three years and they have ignored it.

You said it perfectly, brother Brad:

quote:

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it would take five minutes to explain to Apple how to change OS X to overcome 90% of the resistance to it. Five minutes – if that.

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Which to me is more proof that this is a wool-pulling, rather than a serious development. It's eye candy and circuses, instead of a superior operating system. I think we've proven that you just can't HIDE the fact that something doesn't work. There's no burying it. You can pour perfume on crap and it still stinks.

OS X is ambitious, which is one of the things I actually respect about it. But it's so bereft of making good on any of its promises, that it's actually frightening. And the stuff it really NEEDS for pros to even BEGIN to crap settle some of its flaws, is a good Finder, good Font rendering, good interface, and reliability and stability. We've got none of it.

Five minutes to say "Less is More"... "Make it Go" I'm there. This is such a sad situation. The Mac Faithful really need to say enough is a-friggin'-NOUGH. And some of the Mac Faithful have got to stop crap-settling out of love, and begin tough-loving out of love. Then we'll be on the path to glory. Let Apple get away with foisting crap like this, and that's all they'll do. Crap and iPods and groovy laptops. But to give ALL of it chops, we need a MacOS worthy of getting the torch from the legacy. We are not there yet. No we're not. Are not. Are not.

quote:

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And the stuff it really NEEDS for pros to even BEGIN to crap settle some of its flaws, is a good Finder, good Font rendering, good interface, and reliability and stability. We've got none of it.

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For those tuning in late to the show, that's The Magic Formula. Why do we put up with OS 9's cooperative multitasking? Because there are so many other advantages to OS 9 and so many other things that work great. Does X have to be perfect before we adopt? No. It just has to be good enough within reason and the legacy sets the bar on whether a whole bunch of stuff is reasonable or not.

And as BT said, don't bother with the wool-pulling. You can't take the Lexus out of my garage and replace it with a tank. A tank might be utilitarian, powerful and bullet proof but it's not made for running down to the corner store for a gallon of milk. I drink lots of milk - and I don't often have the need to steamroll a milk truck. And for God's sake don't paint Herbie the Love Bug colors on it and pretend it's cute and lovable. That trail of sunken tread marks in the pavement is a dead giveaway that it ain't no Beetle.

.
PANTHER'S BEING RELEASED TONIGHT!!! THIS IS IT!! THIS IS THE ONE!! THIS IS WHEN IT ALL TURNS AROUND!! THIS IS WHEN THE WORLD SAGS TO ITS KNEES IN SHOCK AND AWE! THIS IS WHEN ALL THE OS 8 AND 9 HOLDOUTS RUSH TO EMBRACE X!! LINES WILL BE SNAKING AROUND THE BLOCK AT APPLE STORES AND COMPUTER STORES IN THE RUSH TO GET PANTHER AND THE G5'S TO RUN IT ON! FIGHTS WILL BREAK OUT AS SUPPLIES DWINDLE! LUCKY BUYERS WILL BE SHEDDING TEARS OF GRATITUDE AS THEY EMERGE WITH THEIR PRIZES IN HAND! BEIGE G3'S AND EARLIER MACS WILL CLOG LANDFILLS AS ALL THE HOLDOUTS CONVERT! APPLE'S MARKET SHARE WILL ZOOM FROM LESS THAN 2% TO 90% AS WINDOWS AND LINUX USERS FLOOD TO THE MAC PLATFORM EN MASSE AFTER HEARING ABOUT THE EARTHSHAKING CHANGES IN PANTHER! MICROSOFT WILL MOVE ITS WORLD HEADQUARTERS TO A ROOM IN THE BACK OF A KFC FRANCHISE! BILL GATES WILL SELL HIS MANSION AND MOVE INTO A STUDIO APARTMENT! STEVE JOBS WILL BE ASKED TO BECOME SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS! OSAMA BIN LADEN AND SADDAM HUSSEIN WILL SURRENDER, KNOWING IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE PANTHER-ENHANCED COMPUTERS FIND THEM! A NEW ERA WILL DAWN! THANK YOU, STEVE!! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! PEACE AND PRODUCTIVITY WILL DESCEND ON THE EARTH! EMISSARIES FROM OTHER PLANETS WILL ARRIVE IN CUPERTINO...

(WHACK!)

Thanks, I needed that.

Never mind.

Markle

[This message was edited by Markle on Fri October 24 2003 at 04:02 PM.]

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STEVE JOBS WILL BE ASKED TO BECOME SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS!

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Brilliant, Brother Markle!

Can't you just see Steve's Keynote at the Worldwide Geopolitical Development Conference?

"Oh, and one more thing...Hell froze over: we've established Jerusalem for Palestine."

quote:

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EMISSARIES FROM OTHER PLANETS WILL ARRIVE IN CUPERTINO...

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Let's hope it's not Klaatu and Gort. Imagine them being caught in an elevator with Steve Jobs. Will Patricia Neal be there to say "Klaatu borada nikto"? And we all know what those three words mean.

Well, my brothers, I got my copy of Panther right on time late Fedex yesterday. I kind of like that Apple (after years of missing deadlines) does stuff like that now. Remember Saturday Fedex for the public beta? I hate to say it, but I appreciate those little customer details. Since they've been so terrible at delivering the goods, coming through... at least they can ship on time. Kudos for that.

OK, FIRST IMPRESSIONS: this was me opening the box:
"Please don't be three disks, please don't be three disks, please don't be three disks, please don't.... AWWWWWWW crap."

The first thing that hit me before anything else, and this is MAJOR... is that at long last, there has been a SLIGHT improvement in interface responsiveness. Mostly with respect to menu firing, window opening and closing. I know it's been an elusive thing, but there's a bit (just a bit, sorry) more sense of "touch"... not great, not nearly legacy.... but better. Unfortunately, does not extend to apps (Photoshop still fails the scribble test), and of course live window resizing. Still just as laggy there. Maybe a pubic hair better. No surprises.

Next thing that hit me: no STRIPES on the title bars. That's much, much better. One of the better visual improvements. Makes a big difference to me, looks much cleaner. The other thing that scored with me is closer contrast with the stripes, much fainter, on menus and the menubar. They're still stripes, but again it's an improvement. I kinda hate them on principle still, I wish they'd just kill them altogether, but I found the interface a hair more readable than it had been. Not readable ENOUGH for me, but credit where credit is due.

Part of it too, might be decreasing the transparency of menus slightly. This is the second time they've done this. Come on guys, it's just a small leap to turn it off altogether. Same with stripes. Rid us of them, and things will be much better. To me, the stray pixel data is always annoying. I don't need it, don't want it.

Another help: they got rid of the technicolor anti-aliasing, which was a supremely stupid idea to begin with.

The new finder: Not crazy about the aluminum texture, but so far seems WAY more usable than Jaggy. The winner is the search feature, which now works more or less like it should have all the way along.

I like the finder better, but still, it ain't as good to me as the Classic Mac spatial Finder, and this time pretty much all they did was tweak the eye candy and give us what amounts to another Dock, another junk drawer. If the left column of the Finder window showed running apps, it would pretty much BE the Dock... if the Dock showed mounted volumes, it would BE the Left Finder column. I keep asking why we need both. PLUS a Finder toolbar. Meanwhile, TRASH would have been perfect in the left column. Or where it really should have always been: on the desktop.

New Open/Saves: Huge improvement. Finally. Those old open/saves were horrendous, anything would have been better. I have to say I still like the legacy ones better, but these aren't too bad. I thought of one feature we need right off the bat: the ability to DRAG AN ITEM INTO THE LEFT COLUMN WHILE IN AN OPEN/SAVE. Think about it. You know I'm right.

One thing that struck me as utterly ridiculous: When you hit the tic-tac on a Finder window, to collapse the Finder toolbar, you get a total change of design... in other words, you go from the iTunesy/mind-metal look, to the other Aqua/titlebar look. So so stupid. That looks really sloppy and half assed. We're still suffering here from a less-than-cohesive or consistent GUI. Still too much competing happy horseshit, and not enough unity. As always, my biggest criticism of OS X is the interface, all this spinning gear garbage doesn't hide the fact that the whole thing could be just way better designed. Visually simpler and leaner and more sophisticated than it is.

The other thing that's totally absurd is the labels--those have gotta go like yesterday, they are the worst interface element I've ever seen, holy crap, they're the new stripes--and the round-rect icon masking also sucks. So obviously a cheat. They couldn't do the compositing right, so they cheaped out. Just like they couldn't color icons, so they give us all these new highlight colors which are so cheap looking because of that gradation. The FIRST thing I'd do is get rid of the gradation on everything. That looks terrible and third rate, especially on labels. Especially on left-finder-column highlighting.

Oh, and if you're like me and pick the friggin' GRAPHITE theme? Well forget about it, because there is still so much blue that Apple refuses to change. Graphite really doesn't mean anything but the Apple menu, widgets, and scroll sliders... a FEW buttons. In an active Finder window, the left-column highlight is Aqua blue. Don't want it blue, I picked graphite. Consistency, please.

Exposé: Kinda fun. Kinda cool. Kinda well done. Kinda a lot of things. Don't hate it. Feels like a utility grown from junk-drawer fertilizer, but hey. I get the feeling we wouldn't need it if OS X wasn't bloated and poorly conceived.

New launch animation: based on transparent large icons instead of rects... cute, quick, attractive, made me smile. Don't hate that either. And fits better with things like the volume and brightness visual feedbacks.

Classic: "Eraser Effect" gone, I almost kissed my screen. So far so good with Classic. Still feels like I'm always just about to out-type it, but it's definitely much better than it was.

New Font Book: Quite nice indeed. Could be better, but I'm pleasantly impressed at the quality of this little program so far. I even like the icon. I'd venture to say that this is my favorite thing about Panther as of today. And since Suitcase looks to be totally broken, I may need to use this for a while.

OK, I'm sure there will be more coming, I've really just started putting this software through its paces, and I am having a really really unfortunate PERMANENT BEACHBALLING syndrome... where I can't even force-quit anything, and have to power down. Not sure what's up with that. Could be OS X hates my new Serial ATA drives. Or it's a conflict with something else I have installed. Gotta troubleshoot that one. That's the biggest drag. But it was happening before the Panther install. So we'll see.

On the whole, Panther is better than Jaggy. I still wouldn't rush right out and adopt, but some strides have been made. The biggest one that Apple STILL NEEDS to make, is "Less is More." Even with the improvments, there is still that overarching problem of too much interface. Too much, too overdone.

Oh, and some things that were nice before, are now pooched: Like the simple little LOCK icon we had before? It wasn't bad. They goofed that up. And they goofed up the ? Help button with a truly fugly color. Couldn't BE any worse.

Fast user switching: kinda groovy, nice to switch to root, and when I re-login as me, to have all my apps open. The cube effect is pleasant, there for the gee-whiz factor.

Mail: threaded mail is sweet, though the first thing I did was change the thread higlighting color... then I just turned it off.

OK, gotta go... I'm down with the flu too, more later brothers...

Bye Bye Jaggy.

Finder no longer thinks so hard.

Sound problem I had with Jaggy are 99% gone. X.1 was rock solid with sound. I had problems with sound in Jaggy from the start all the way to X.2.8.

The change to the lock icon can go.

As of now I can not find a way to change default internet preferences. System Preferences Internet Pane only has .mac and idisk. No way to change default download from the desktop. To change default browser you have to do it thru Safari. To change email default must also be done thru Mail.

Expose works on my B&W although the small windows are pretty much unreadable but distinguishable from one another. On a whole Expose for users who work with many open apps and windows will become indespensible.

Not sure how I feel about the new Finder window. Clicking the tick tac seems to set the window more like the look of the Legacy. This is either inconsistent or the choice to work the Finder more like one is used to in the Legacy. Rids the Trif of his dislike of the tool bar in his Finder windows.

Did a fresh install. All apps up and working.

Fedex never came Friday. The tracking number claimed they stopped by around 2:15. Don't think so. No sign outside they were here like a tag saying sorry you were not home. They either went to the wrong place or just to busy. What that meant for me was a trip over to there main drop off station which is in the middle of a housing project. Not the best place to visit at 8PM in the dark. Safe and sound with the black cat up and running by 10pm.

I've heard that the menus now have - as they should have had all along - dividers? Any truth to that?

quote:

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Originally posted by RICO85:
Rids the Trif of his dislike of the tool bar in his Finder windows.

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hum, I had Panther DP, and the toolbar is still un-killable, it still reapears when spring-loading folders, or when creating a new folder in the desktop, or when double clicking Disk images. Toolbars/metal are the default, and there is no way to disable them forever. Panther fixed nothing in that respect. It's worse now.