I've heard it stated many times in these forums taht Mac OS X has less of a future than Linux. Yet Apple is now selling more Macs than it ever has in a very long time. One million a quarter and its still climbing. Apple has also sold 2 million copies of Tiger since its release. Thats a pretty fast adoption rate. I know the iPod is attributable to some of the recent pickup in Mac sales, but until the keynote I never knew just how large the pickup was. This was most likely another factor in the transition to Intel as aside from more speed, Apple needs to secure a steady and constant supply of processors so we can skip the whole "And these new Macs will be shipping 4 months after the Keynote" situation that we've been enduring for years.

So I was under the impression from you guys that the interface of OS X was so horrible that no one would buy it and any of the folks who did buy it would immediately return it, yet of course that never took into account the switchers who were never used to the old Mac OS to begin with nor the previous Mac OS users who actually enjoy OS X (you know, the majority of Mac users since the Public Beta?)

So why have the adoption rates for each successive release of OS X increased instead of decreased if the OS really has such a dark future as many of you claim it has?

.
As has been said elsewhere, now that Apple has announced the shift to a new platform and told everyone their equipment and software are about to be obsolete, you can forget about any further pickup in Mac sales for a while.

quote:

... until the keynote I never knew just how large the pickup was.

You believe everything iCon Steve tells you at a keynote??

quote:

...of course that never took into account the switchers who were never used to the old Mac OS to begin with nor the previous Mac OS users who actually enjoy OS X (you know, the majority of Mac users since the Public Beta?)

Obviously the switchers who never knew the old Mac had no way to know what they were missing.

Since the majority of Mac users at the time of the Public Beta never migrated to OS X, we'll never know how much they "enjoyed" it.

Markle

I never left.

quote:

Originally posted by NDPTAL85:
I've heard it stated many times in these forums taht Mac OS X has less of a future than Linux. Yet Apple is now selling more Macs than it ever has in a very long time. One million a quarter and its still climbing. Apple has also sold 2 million copies of Tiger since its release. Thats a pretty fast adoption rate. I know the iPod is attributable to some of the recent pickup in Mac sales, but until the keynote I never knew just how large the pickup was. This was most likely another factor in the transition to Intel as aside from more speed, Apple needs to secure a steady and constant supply of processors so we can skip the whole "And these new Macs will be shipping 4 months after the Keynote" situation that we've been enduring for years.

So I was under the impression from you guys that the interface of OS X was so horrible that no one would buy it and any of the folks who did buy it would immediately return it, yet of course that never took into account the switchers who were never used to the old Mac OS to begin with nor the previous Mac OS users who actually enjoy OS X (you know, the majority of Mac users since the Public Beta?)

So why have the adoption rates for each successive release of OS X increased instead of decreased if the OS really has such a dark future as many of you claim it has?

http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2005/0,4814,99454,00.html

Apple SEC filing shows shift from pro to consumer Macs

In recapping its quarterly net sales performance, Apple noted that demand for its consumer systems is on an upswing. Apple moved 456,000 iMacs and 271,000 iBooks during the quarter, generating $620 million and $297 million in net sales, respectively. That's a 147% and 34% year-over-year increase for the two hardware categories.

Bullish iBook and iMac G5 sales underscore disappointing results for Apple's pro line. Power Mac G5 net sales and unit sales were off 4% and 19% respectively; PowerBook G4 net and unit sales were off 23% and 22%, respectively.

How long can a company survive on selling iTunes-stations ?

I'm off.

quote:

So I was under the impression from you guys that the interface of OS X was so horrible that no one would buy it and any of the folks who did buy it would immediately return it, yet of course that never took into account the switchers who were never used to the old Mac OS to begin with nor the previous Mac OS users who actually enjoy OS X (you know, the majority of Mac users since the Public Beta?)

Uh, I never said anything like that. Never said nobody would buy it. I mean, come on, *I* bought it. Several times over. I never returned it. I never said casual users, digikids, and many of the Mac faithful aren't friggin' GULLIBLE. They are.

What I've been saying for YEARS now, is that I think people are crap-settling, and the platform is getting dumbed down. The user base is being divided into sharks and marks, with the user base getting the short end of the stick, and with geek aristocrats left holding all the cards. And with pros left out in the cold while the Mac Marketeers responsible for turning the Macintosh into a half-assed passive entertainment box.

I've said it many times before, that the reason the Mac sucks so bad right now, is that marketeers and focus groups made up of Windows people had a hand in designing the user experience. It was all about skinning NeXT Step to cut corners on the development. And because those marketeers have such a low opinion of our abilities and attention spans, they gave us bullshit, nonsense, and visual superabundance. The equivalent of computer junk food. With all the real power reserved for people who by training and experience can bypass the graphical user interface.

I think this operating system is terrible, its interface sucks, and people are getting conned and railroaded into adopting it. I'm a pro user with a Mac infrastructure, and I adopted. I'm just not happy with the product. And since I know I wouldn't be happy with Windows either, and since it's not realistic for me to switch my entire infrastructure, I'm kinda up shit's creek. I've spoken to many pros in my city who feel more or less the same way. Almost everyone I know who makes a living on the Mac (meaning those who cut their teeth on the legacy) is lukewarm about Aqua and OS X. With the exception of geeks, who have a vested interest in this platform staying arcane and difficult to use by anyone but Unix gurus.

And I really don't think pros are happy with the state of the Mac. Not if they know what they're doing. And especially not if they rely on large, commercial, GUI-driven apps to do their work. Geek aristocrats, sure (I mean come on, they're happy with text editors and watching spinning gears and following eyes)... casual users, perhaps. Digikids, probably. But pros need better. In its whole history, the Mac interface has never been this slow, and application stability has never been this poor. All we did was trade one kind of crash for another, more frequent kind of crash. We traded good design for terrible design. A consistent user experience for one that's wildly variable in quality.

I pretty much feel like I was forced into adoption, and ended up with a really terrible user experience as a result. Way worse than the legacy ever was.

And yet mama thalo, who really doesn't know any better, likes OS X fine. She doesn't do what I do, doesn't ask much of her computer except for a few casual-use things. She's fine. She thinks the icons are "pretty". Do I hate her for that? Of course not. But as somebody who's been around Macs, and Mac interfaces from the beginning, there ain't nobody who can tell me her user experience couldn't be BETTER, if the OS were better conceived, and if the interface were better (and not over) designed.

A taste of what's in store for APple's sales:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/09/apple_sales_chill/

I loved this:

quote:

Publications requesting feedback on Mac-related issues often elicit ballot-stuffing from Mac enthusiast sites

I'm glad somebody else sees the desperation of X-Man shills to keep the con going.

I think Mac sales are all in the low end, and portables. The high end has never been softer.

Those pesky pros are just harder to fool. They have a bottom line, and aren't charmed by just sexy hardware and eye candy.

.
I loved the next sentence:

quote:

This time, the “Apple nutcase” contingent represents a remarkably small proportion of all the emails received.

Hey, I used my "stocks" widget to see how Apple's stock is doing since the announcement. Oops. LOL. The widget performed beautifully, wish I could say the same for the stock. It's off something like 5%, and is heading down.

Its pretty clear that the sales of high end Macs have fallen off because they aren't exciting anymore. That tends to happen when the CPU doesn't get upgraded. Fortunately Steve Jobs has given us a two year roadmap to ending this permanent state of CPU stagnation.

Has nothing to do with Mac OS X. Without OS X, PowerMac sales would be even lower.

quote:

Its pretty clear that the sales of high end Macs have fallen off because they aren't exciting anymore

OMG, are you serious? That's digkid thinking, man. Where new, fresh, and exciting are more important than actually WORKING. Apple has you right where they want you. All they have to do is trot out some bogus "excitement" and you'll jump.

Sales would be fine if there wasn't so much BS. If the machines and the operating system and the software that runs on it, REALLY lived up to the hype. By making this whole development a con-based sham, rather than a QUALITY-based MISSION, Apple's just getting caught. They were trying to game the truth. That being, if you want to charge premium prices, you have to provide a premium product. Apple hasn't been doing that.

They corner-cut, and dumb down, trying to give broader appeal to a segment of the user base that they LOOK DOWN ON as retards, and then have the audacity to charge through the nose? Please. No wonder.

But the second they try to play in an arena where there's a bottom line, where stuff really needs to work, and you CAN'T HIDE behind bullshit, they can't make the sale.

I've been holding off because I really don't think what I get from them is worth the money anymore, thanks to OS X. I never had a problem with their hardware design. My beef is the crap spiral that started with OS X. Quality and performance and usability has fallen off. So people who need high end systems, who really can't afford to be gullible, aren't.

Look, If OS X was great, and if all my design apps would run well on it, I'd buy more than one G5. As it stands now, I've been really reluctant to get even one for myself. And I used to friggin' LOVE to splurge on new hardware. But now it's "fool me once..."

It's never taken me as long to make up my mind to buy an Apple product, as it has now since the dumbing down and casual-use digital hub strategy. These aren't pro computers anymore, and it's tough for me to justify using them. And when I do break down, and order my new CPU, I'm going to keep Seabiscuit around just in case. In case I have to boot back into the legacy to remind myself why I became a Mac person at all.

quote:

Fortunately Steve Jobs has given us a two year roadmap to ending this permanent state of CPU stagnation....

I'm sure Steve was pretty accurate this time around in the level of difficulty in porting apps from PPC to Intel. ... He more than anyone wants to make this transition as seamless as possible for everyone, developers and users alike. ...

An absolute win win win for everyone.

"...has given us...."

It's always touching to witness the religious faith of a true believer.


Markle

LOL.

Mark my words, the same X-Men who were talking the PPC up, calling it far superior to anything Intel could ever put out, are in the process of flip flopping. Readjusting to a new party line. Watch how quickly it happens. How blindly they'll follow.

The few improvements there have been to OS X have been a result of hard complaining and criticism. The apologists and defenders have tried to thwart true progress every step of the way, because they are more about belonging and accepting than they are about making things better. They defend the status quo because to admit that things are in trouble, is an admission that THEY got duped.

But they did. And they're getting duped right now. Crap settle, and corporate america will walk all over you. Demand more of Apple, and you'll get it. It's that simple.

quote:

Mark my words, the same X-Men who were talking the PPC up, calling it far superior to anything Intel could ever put out, are in the process of flip flopping. Readjusting to a new party line. Watch how quickly it happens.

Man, ain't that the truth!

"Oceana is at war with Eurasia. Oceana has always been at war with Eurasia."

Six months later:

"Oceana is at war with East Asia. Oceana has always been at war with East Asia."

Or as I wrote 2 or 3 years ago:

The "loyal" Apple faithful:

Pre-X: "The Mac is great. It's everything a computer should be. It makes everything else look like a clunking antique. It's elegance and ease-of-use is breathtaking. They can take away my Mac when they pry the mouse from my cold, dead fingers."

Post-X: "OS 9 sucked. The old Mac OS was crap. A sham. A computer for retards. Nobody in their right mind could use it. I demand that Apple remove Classic and all other vestiges of that POS. I can't stand being in the same room with it. Ugh. Ick. Yuck."


Markle

quote:

Originally posted by NDPTAL85:
Its pretty clear that the sales of high end Macs have fallen off because they aren't exciting anymore.
Has nothing to do with Mac OS X. Without OS X, PowerMac sales would be even lower.

The pro's i know looked at OS X, decided that it still is lacking in important aspects (font management, performance, usability, performance, consistence, performance, stability and performance. Oh, and did i mention font management and performance ?) and stayed with OS 9 for the time being.

Turns out they were doing exactly the right thing. Had they bought a G5, they would be running on legacy hardware by now.

quote:

Originally posted by NDPTAL85:
Its pretty clear that the sales of high end Macs have fallen off because they aren't exciting anymore.
Has nothing to do with Mac OS X. Without OS X, PowerMac sales would be even lower.

Uff, perhaps that's true. It's partly true... Brainmanipulated Digikids on speed always need a new "exciting" hardware/product. So they don't buy too many of those G5, maybe they will go for an imac, bc. this computer is more "exciting" ..yawn. Of' coz a 2.7ghz g5 is also a bit exciting... a little bit.

The (x) "pros" have already bought a G5 when the hype started and don't need a slighty upgraded g5. Not because the machines aren't "exciting", but because they only bring very little speed improvements.

the (legacy) "pros" who never adopted OS X won't buy a G5, because the sloppy OS is still a sloppy OS, even on a lil' faster hardware.

"Pros" don't need exciting crap, but workflows, less mouseclicks, no transitions, fast and easy handling of tenthousands (or millions) of files (and i mean that!).

And the sad thing is, it's all too late IMHO. Apple is going on with its broad (digikid/simple/casual user)-consumer-oriented tactic. I'm soo fed up with apple now. Press and Fans applaud. Shareholders cheer up after a hype is created. This company isn't about groundbreaking solutions anymore IMHO.

Ain't this the sad truth:

quote:

This company isn't about groundbreaking solutions anymore IMHO.

But it needs to be. Conning and hyping wear pretty thin if you just don't deliver time after time. I've said this before but the only difference between now and "my day" is that fanatical loyalty is demonstrated more by people who have fallen for the con, than by pros for whom it really does do a better job. Apple's made its choice between more, dumber customers... and fewer, smarter customers. You tell me what has happened to product quality because of that. They're still locking themselves into a niche market, it's just a bigger niche, and easier for them to be friggin' slackers. They sit back while digikids look on in anime saucer-eyed wonder at crap that's really easy to do... and pros are getting more and more frustrated, because the IMPORTANT stuff is really poorly executed.

My story in the legacy years was that the Mac really did do a better job in my industry than anything else out there. The Mac SAVED ME WORK. I got used to its excellent, intuitive GUI. Now? Pfffft. It creates more work than it saves me. It's so irritating to work with, sometimes I have to get up and go outside and calm down. Or palm off the monkeywork on an intern. Stuff I used to ENJOY doing, I can't stand now.

All because the OS and the interface doesn't BEHAVE anymore. It doesn't OBEY. It is just way, way, way, way, WAY too easy to trip up. And that makes an utterly sucky user experience.

I had the phone in my hands, brothers. Ready to order the G5. Hoping that faster hardware would help a little bit. It probably would. But I chickened out AGAIN. I have the money. It's burning a hole in my pocket. I just have this reflex-response to buying crap and throwing good money after bad. I can't do it. I need some sense that Apple is working toward making the operating system more adequate for pro use. And not two years from now on Intel hardware. Now. A lot of what ails the Mac could be fixed by just starting to deal with the performance and interface problems. Cutting some of the bloat and making things work better and more intuitively.