Here's the solution to accessing Hotmail from Mail. In includes installing this plugin.

Hurray, Brad, the Gauguin avatar is gone.

Hear that, Markle? At least someone around here appreciates psychodelic. Or maybe he just hates Gauguin that much. I'm tempted to bring Paulie back soon because of that.

No, you can... you just have to do the fucking extra twiddle to do it now. You have to set it to "Folder" and "List" in the Dock popup menu. And you have to do it for every folder you drag in there. But once set, it remembers. Hopefully.

Oh, okay. Thanks for the info. My knee-jerk hatred of Stacks was a little premature.

I don't have any hotmail accounts, but I think it's all going to depend on whether or not you have a legacy account or a newer "Windows Live" one. I think the only hotmail that's going to work in Mac Mail are the subscription accounts, and who the hell wants to pay for email?

My account is a free one, but it's a couple years old (at least). That may be why it works. Would someone mind sending me something at Hotmail address for testing purposes? And a small attachment would be nice (tits, even better). I'll post the address in the moderator section.

2) Leopold is faster on Intel Macs

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, brother Yabor. But I didn't notice any overt decrease in responsiveness in Leotard on my G4 1.25 MHz single processor PPC Mac, although I was mainly just poking around, not running much of my normal software.

For contacts, where are you trying to import them from? I just imported from another copy of Address book on my other drive. If you're going from outlook or something you have to export to a tab-delimited text file (or some other common format like LDIF or vCards), and then import that into the Apple Address Book app.

Thalo, I exported from Outlook Express (there were no options as far as a format) and imported as text from Address Book and it worked.

Okay, I've officially entered at least the Bronze Age from the Iron Age. I'm now using Mail.

One of us... one of us... one of us...

You entered Scientology from secular humanism, you mean.

LOL. Yeah. That's probably one reason I was holding out so long. Getting into the whole spirit of the thing now, I've got this big Big-Brother-like black-and-white framed picture of Steve Jobs that I'm going to hang in front of my desk on the wall. Underneath it it will say "Visual superabundance sets you free."

Thalo, a little birdy told me about some ideas for keeping Classic alive, and I'll discuss it here because others may have some ideas or want to consider the case. Could I put a Classic machine on the network running HyperCard and then just VPN to that box (or whatever software is used for that in OS X)? Could I control and use HyperCard that way from within a window of Leotard? Even if this is so, I'm not sure what kind of software comes with Leotard and whether it could control a machine running Tiger or even Panther. Any opinion?

Anyway, Rico, I ended up not reformatting the 120 GIG that was divided into three partitions. I got one of those Star Warian "I've got a bad feeling about this" inklings. So I just dumped Leotard on the 320 (going totally against the Rico Doctrine). I'm not doing anything so processor or disk intensive that I need to get to maniacal about all this. But all my jobs are on the back-channel ATA/60 Macintosh 80 GIG HD, so I could move them up to one of the front-channel ATA/100 spots.

But I did a test with a 28 MB Photoshop file. It opened in 3-1/2 seconds from the 80 GIG ATA/60 drive and in 3-1/2 seconds from the 320 ATA/100 drive. Not sure I really need to fuss too much about this, at least not for my relatively modest needs. But it does surely help to hear what the theoretical best would be.

Interesting, I did another test. This time with a 156.1 MB tif. I opened each one up from one of the drives, closed it, and then immediately opened it again to try to take account of caching and such. The 120 GIG ATA/100 was fastest at 9-1/2 seconds on the first opening (4-1/2 on the second). The 320 GIG ATA/100 was second fastest at 12 seconds (4-1/2 on the second). The 80 GIG ATA/60 was slowest at 17 seconds (4-1/2 on the second). So right now I have my main system (Tigard) running on the fastest drive (according to this crude test), and the caches all running on the second fastest drive. All my data is on the slowest drive.

Hm, I think you're screwed pretty much three ways from Sunday if you want to try to run Classic on Leopard or from Leopard. I don't think there's an emulator for Classic like "Remote Desktop Connection" that's going to work. There's an app "SheepShaver" where you have to find a Mac ROM... but there's no Leopard version yet, and I think it's for Intel Macs. Apple has really tried to drive a stake through the heart of Classic with Leopard.

I simply go over to my OS X 10.4 server and use Classic when I need to. I've got a monitor on it. You could probably get a separate drive and load Tigtard on it, and Classic, and boot into that occasionally to use Hypercard, but that's going to be clumsy.

You can run a WINDOWS machine from Leopard, or remote control another Leopard Machine, that's gotten really easy. I'm not sure about another Mac running Tiger and Classic. I can access all the files and run apps from my Tiger server, just not classic apps. I get the "Classic environment is no longer supported" alert. I can see them, the classic Mac icons are there and viewable, I can copy files, open text files or files that can be opened in a Leopard app, but anything Classic specific and Classic apps won't run.

Brad, maybe check out Revolution, which is supposed to be able to convert old Hypercard stacks to something that can run natively on OS X. http://support.runrev.com/resources/hypercard.php

Thalo, I thought there was a piece of software that let you run other Macs virtually, like in a window. I was wondering if the remote machine could be running Classic and the Leotard (or even Tigard) machine then could control it.

This page has this info:

quote:

Full Remote GUI Control
Finally, if you want complete control over the GUI, there's VNC. VNC allows you to open a window that shows the exact the desktop of the other computer, so you can move the other user's mouse, type in their dialog boxes, and otherwise annoy them. OSXvnc and Chicken of the VNC are my favorite server and client, respectively. After launching your VNC server, you can use any computer that has VNC client to log in and do your remote controlling. The biggest downside to VNC (and the reason it is not covered more extensively here) is that it is totally interactive and is difficult (if not impossible) to automate.

Or maybe I'm looking for Apple Remote Desktop?

God damned if I can get Vine Viewer/Server to work.

Brad, maybe check out Revolution, which is supposed to be able to convert old Hypercard stacks to something that can run natively on OS X.

Thanks for the info. I ran into a pretty good discussion (bookmarked in the Leotard Safari browser, I'm in Tigard at the moment) that seemed to come to the conclusion that SuperCard was the better product by far. I've downloaded a demo and successfully converted all my stacks. It shows me some of the tweaking I would have to do, but it works.

Yes, Apple Remote Desktop is great, and I guess they just came out with a 3.2 update. What I don't see anywhere is whether a Leotard machine will be able to remote to a Tigtard machine running classic.

The existence of This document has that typical Apple wording that makes me leery: notice how they separate issues of Leotard and Tigtard, and where they say "after upgrading a Mac OS X 10.4 or 10.4 server to Mac OS X 10.5... that says to me, no classic.

The existence of This document has that typical Apple wording that makes me leery: notice how they separate issues of Leotard and Tigtard, and where they say "after upgrading a Mac OS X 10.4 or 10.4 server to Mac OS X 10.5... that says to me, no classic.

My understanding of how all that VPN stuff works is that basically you're just sending mouse clicks to another machine and it's sending you back a video image. There's not programming involved, per se. A Leotard machine would care only that the other machine could respond to the mouse clicks, nothing else. Although different versions of OS X might not work with Apple Remote Desktop for other reasons, it doesn't seem likely that those reasons have much, if anything, to do with technical issues. But damned if I can find out why the Vine VPN viewer/server didn't work. I just couldn't get the server part to kick in correctly despite following what minimal instructions were provided. I'm still scratching my head over that, and no way I'd pay out money for something like that that doesn't actually work. I've made Windows VPN stuff (whatever their proprietary and free program is) work on XP boxes controlling other XP boxes. It's not that hard IF THE SOFTWARE WORKS.

quote:

My understanding of how all that VPN stuff works is that basically you're just sending mouse clicks to another machine and it's sending you back a video image. There's not programming involved, per se.

That's my understanding too. But this is Apple. And they want Classic to die. And they want people to buy Intel machines.

Here's another page that says the system requirements are:

quote:

Apple Remote Desktop (ARD) version 3.2 can be installed on computers that have:

Mac OS X 10.3.9 or later.
An Ethernet (recommended), AirPort, or FireWire over IP network connection.
Apple Remote Desktop (ARD) 3.0 or 3.1.

That's a good sign. I've got to upgrade ARD anyway, maybe I'll get it and let you know if it works.

I'm going to try the Revolution demo (still waiting for them to email me a trial key) and see if it does a better job of converting HyperCard stacks. I think, all in all, SuperCard did a pretty good job. But I can see the never-ending amount of tweaking and tinkering it will take to fix the converted stacks. I'll be better off just putting a laptop to one side and running HyperCard from that. And I'm still going to try to make the VPN option work. Thalo, I realize that Apple Remote Desktop is a commercial app. If you do get the upgrade of Apple Remote Desktop, I'm going to email you the IP and password on my OS 10.3.9 iBook and see if you can make it work. I trust my porn collection with you. (No, that itty bitty hard drive ain't got no room for porn.)

But I'm glad I took the time to move to Mail. It was just one of those intrenched habit things. And I'm half-thinking that some of my problems with Classic stability wasn't about ATM (no, the other ATM) and fonts. It might have been about Outlook Express. But right now I have one problem with Mail. Despite the option being checked in the Account preferences, it doesn't seem to be deleting the messages from the server after downloading them. Ever run into that?

Also, when using Mail, how do I *not* have it send a picture of me in my email? It seems to still send some kind of icon even when I don't put a picture in the Address Book. I think it uses my login icon. But it doesn't preview very well what you're actually going to send....or am I missing an option to perhaps preview such things?

quote:

Despite the option being checked in the Account preferences, it doesn't seem to be deleting the messages from the server after downloading them. Ever run into that?

Actually yes. Fucking irritating. Happens on my .mac account a lot. It's a flavor of prefnesia.

Do you have mail running on different computers that are fetching from the same account? Make sure they ALL have the same setting. Also, try toggling the setting (in Advanced) Change them around and try to force the system to recognize the pref. This is the OS X equivalent of kicking your lawnmower when it stalls. Hit "remove now" too, just for the bejeezus. Restart the app. Restart the Mac. Then start looking for a hotmail control panel that you don't know about.

Don't forget to also check "mailbox behaviors" which I always set to "never". For "notes" I have "store in Inbox" checked.

As for your photo, I don't think it's sending your photo. Email me to make sure. I got your photo attachments, but I didn't see an address book picture. If you look at your SENT mail, do you see a little picture of yourself in the upper righthand corner?

Thanks. Good advice. In wondered what I was doing wrong. I wondered what part of "Remove copy from server after retrieving a message" that I might not be understanding. But at least Mail has that "Remove now" feature. It's almost like they were anticipating prefnesia.

Only have one computer running Mail, so that's not an issue. I'll just play "spin the preferences" which is sort of like playing "spin the bottle." I'll just keep spinning preferences until it works. I'll kick the lawnmower. Sometimes that works.

I like the way Mail (at least in Tigard) allows you to customize its toolbar. Don't like the one-big-widge Reply/Reply All/Forward widget? Well, I never have used "Reply All" and don't even know what it's for. But you can just put a single "Reply" and a single "Forward" button in the toolbar and replace it. I don't think I've seen that in Leotard's Finder toolbar. You're stuck with Cover Flow and the probability of clicking it by accident when you were really reaching for another widget.

I'm posting this from OS X Tigard (my main work machine) to a Windows XP box in the other room (my main Unreal Tournament "break" station) via Microsoft's RDC (Remote Desktop Connection) software for OS X. (I think it's free. I found it in the OS X Office 2004 stuff.) I'm basically, from OS X Tigard, controlling Internet Explorer running on an XP box that is connected to thalo.net.

So I know I'm not a total ignoramous when it comes to this stuff, but damned if I can get any of that shareware or demoware VNC server/client stuff to work from one OS X box to another OS X Box.

Do you have any firewall type software installed that might be plugging up various ports on your machine? When you go to your "Security" Preference pane, what does it say under "Firewall"?

I know this means very little to any of you, but I was busting my butt all day and night tweaking the code to my HyperCard stacks to make them more compatible with SuperCard. And I'm much more optimistic now that it would work. The programming guts seem solid. Aesthetically it's a mess. The change of fonts from OS 9 to OS X have messed most of the buttons and text fields up a little. I tried installing the same Type 1 fonts (Palatino, Geneva, Helvetica) that I use in Classic. It helped some, but it's still rather a mess. I don't know if OS X is overriding those fonts with fonts of its own by the same name or what. That's going to take a lot of cleaning up, but if the programming is working then that stuff is minor because it's easy in comparison.

Thalo, one of those products has a step-by-step process of going to the Firewall, editing it for VNC and for port 5900-5902 (or something like that). I did that, but maybe I did it wrong. I've tried so many combinations of things it's driving me scrammy and I sort of lost momentum. I had the firewall on and the VNC port enabled. I admit I'm stumped.

Oh man Hypercard. I never used it before. It was much before my time on the Mac. I worked for a Photographer once that used Hypercard. He had hundreds of addresses stored using Hypercard. Unfortunately he passed away. If I told this story before you can stop reading. Well at one point I am given the heave hoe after his daughter shows up. She was nice he was ill I went without any problem. Well after he dies the daughter brings in the nitwit broad I was brought in to replace by the father. They call me up saying if I can give them a hand to switch over to Windows from the fathers Apple Cube. Sure no problem. Well they needed me to transfer over the hundreds of Hypercard addresses to Outlook. I forget how I did it but it was a pain in the ass.

Now the father was not any ordinary Photographer. He had been a personal photographer to the Kennedy Family. First Jack then Bobby's family. In his Hypercard stacks I had personal phone numbers addresses to a number of the Kennedy clan. Ethel several of the children. I thought it was pretty funny.

The funniest thing was after setting the windows machine up for them many months later I start getting bombarded by spam mail. Then the nitwit chick sends out a batch email saying sorry she was attacked by a virus that stole the contents of her address book in Outlook. It still cracks me up to think Ethel Kennedy receiving crank phone calls by some spammer.

Rico, it looks like you can do darn near anything with these scripting programs. It's just that they don't run as fast and I'm pretty sure the developer tools are nowhere near as sophisticated as Cocoa or something like that, so really big endeavors are probably harder to implement. But one could theoretically write InDesign with SuperCard (the HyperCard replacement, more or less). But it would run at about 1/128 of the speed. But for other one-off stuff, it's great. Often there are tasks you want to perform that no piece of software was ever written for, and if it was, it's not quite what you need. These scripting languages will let you get as custom and anal as you want. If I could HyperCard an OS X Finder, you bet I would. Here's one handler I can think of just right off the top of my head:

onColumnViewOpen
get the width of columnAreaHorizontal
divide the width by 3 and put into columnWidth
set number of columns to 3
set width of all columns to columnWidth
end ColumnViewOpen

That's just a fancy way of saying, "Make Column View open always to 3 columns and make the friggin Columns all equal width so I don't have to constantly fiddle with them.

endRant

(On second thought, maybe I should look into AppleScript and see what it can do in terms of manipulating Finder windows.)