Have you seen this page? It's the preview of dashboard.

I'm sorry, but I just laughed and laughed. Especially when I saw the turd-in-toilet-water effect, and the bigger, uglier dock that holds the widgets.

Widget hell, brothers.

And holy pooched semiotic program. Yet another fucking PLUS SIGN to click. Another style of X close widget too. But without the traffic light color program.

Really,come on, how much interface do we need? How many docks? How many icon arrays. How over the top spinning gears happy horseshit does it have to get before the MacLash? I say the superabundance has reached critical mass. I can't imagine it getting any worse. The interface certainly can't get any fucking BUSIER.

Famous last words.

You'll only get the effect on G5s too.

Not only are the turds highly polished but the requirements to see the dunking effects is high.

Guess I'll have to upgrade from a G3 iBook to a G5 dual to see the turd splashes.

Yeah, that is so fucking gratuitous, it bothers even me.

quote:

Yeah, that is so fucking gratuitous, it bothers even me.

And there's so many profoundly bad design choices in skinning those front-line widgets. I mean, you gotta think that Apple is uh, spotlighting them because they think they're the cat's ass. But come on, a big RED calendar? What is it, the day to give blood? Where's the fire? Oh my god, it's the 29th... must... remember... to buy... tiger... struggling to see through all the widgets, ah RED, thank heavens.

There's one glimmer of an idea that I actually DO like. That if truly implemented, could probably change the ENTIRE interface for the better. And that is the idea of taking a window, and putting certain information like prefs and settings on the BACK of it. That's kinda clever. Imagine that done in a way where particular document preferences in an application could be viewed and tweaked. Stuff you don't need to look at all the time, like color settings or grids and guides or specs. I like it because you can associate particular information with particular document windows. And make that info doc specific. If it was pan-application preferences, or um, services, it might not be appropriate on the back.

But what I like best about it is that it's a fast, space-saving way to deal with "behind the scenes" settings. And in the same way that "sheets" were supposed to be window and document specific, showing info on the back of a window makes a kind of sense. Uh, but it makes sense to do it everywhere, not just stupid widgets. Something like that could work in the FINDER too.

Or, you know how Unix supposedly lurks underneath the GUI? Imagine having some kind of contextual TERMINAL or CONSOLE on the back of things. Where you can enter unix commands based on what app you are running. You see the skin on side a, but the actual working guts on side b.

Or in your browser, flipping a web page around and seeing the source.

That would give a kind of logical, user-power to this type of OS. By dealing with the back end like that, you give the user the power to pop the hood on anything at any time.

I mean, you gotta think that Apple is uh, spotlighting them because they think they're the cat's ass.

Probably not. Apple is highlighting them because they think the rubes will excitedly gasp "Koooolll!" I bet the engineers at Apple think the widget crap-fest is as stupid as we do. It's just that they have a kinda low opinion of their customers.

Holy jumping turd splashes! It looks like the end of the world. Apple has finally done it. The Mac interface is now officially a Pixar animated short film. Yup, the product has gone from a being a useful business-like tool to being a cartoon. Look at the pretty, sparkly cartoon colors. I guess we can expect the next revision to have the widget icons bonking each other on the heads with frying pans to bring up metadata.

Right, that's what I meant to say. They're leading in with those, because they think the RUBES will think they're the cat's ass.

But when I saw them, I kinda squinted my eyes in pain, and wrinkled up my nose and brow like an assault from a powerfully bad smell. I literally couldn't believe it. I still have a question mark hanging over my head at why we have a squillion interfaces and window treatments in Dashboard, but fucking only one Aqua treatment (which is really a hybrid iTunes and Aqua treatment)? And NONE of the choices are attractive or make any visual sense.

That turd spash is one expensive little animation effect. But I'm gonna buy a dual G5, what, for fucking THAT? Oh no you di'int.
Mercy me.

And STILL those effects don't make sense. They don't MEAN anything. They're only, like you say, so people will gasp "Koooooollll!" But that gasping wears off. You can only watch that effect so many times, only show it off to your friends so many times.

Hey, wanna come over?

Uh, are you gonna show me that stupid turd-splash effect on your mac again?

hey, watch it, it's not stupid...

sorry man, maybe some other time.

And lookit how BIG the effect is, how much of the screen it effects. At least the friggin' poof is relatively small. This is the digital equivalent of skipping stones on a pond. And we all know how fucking fun that is, and for how long. Eye roll.

If these guys spent HALF the time on friggin' time wasting gee-whiz spinning gears sit-back-and-marvel-at-my-juicy-chessclub-brain special effects as they spent on making the operating system actually functional and useful, we might really have something.

More smoke and mirrors. More great and powerful OS. More big splashy crap hiding the fact that how it looks has nothing to do with what it realy does.

And NONE of the choices are attractive or make any visual sense.


Ain't it the truth! I expect Apple to include a user choice in the next revision of having the widget icons bonking each other with frying pans or giant wooden mallets --- bright red ones! See, that way when critics like you complain the interface isn't customizable X-promoters can prove you wrong by pointing to these wonderful choices you have to make the Mac your own. Do you want crap? Or would you rather have really bright red crap? It's all up to you. Go ahead! Customize to your heart's content. It doesn't matter. You can't change anything important anyway.

Dashboard is the acknowledgement that Konfabulator and its widget interface is a very popular piece of software and has great utility for its users. Just like the new Sherlock's redesign based on Watson.

Scorn is due where the widgets are poorly designed in Dashboard (and Konfabulator). But many widgets are well designed and can be utilized to increase efficiency and productivity. Personally, I have five or six widgets in the background with Konfabulator that seem indispensible to me now. I like the addition of the technology (though did they have to rip Konfab off that much). I don't like the excessive cheese factor.

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Speaking of bloat, that Apple page showcasing Dashboard wants to download a 39.4 MB Quicktime file on me. Even with DSL, I'm just not that interested.


Markle

homepage update, brothers, with how I see dashboard.

One of my biggest problems with widgets is SCALE.

Suppose the HUD (heads up display) of a fighter pilot was, instead of airspeed, altitude, fuel, weapons status, and other important stuff, was instead a real time Survivor update in huge letters: "JANU LEAVES THE GAME!!" And now suppose you were in the middle of a dogfight.

That's how Dashboard seems to me. None of it, not anything, is worth the importance given to it visually. It's all a huge waste of my valuable screen real estate for stupid shit.

Like the weather. I can have the temp and a small icon in the MENUBAR and it's enough info. I can have a small digital clock there, with the day and date. Takes up almost no room. Wait, I need that same stuff in a huge colorful distracting skinned-up-the-wazoo freakin' WINDOW? No thanks. Hey, dashboards in cars are for important stuff. Not goofy shit. No plans to start a widget collection, and then play around showing and hiding them.

"Exposé for widgets" Good christ. Please shoot me. We wouldn't need Exposé for Exposé if the interface wasn't such a fucking disorganized mess.

quote:

Originally posted by thalo:
There's one glimmer of an idea that I actually DO like. That if truly implemented, could probably change the ENTIRE interface for the better. And that is the idea of taking a window, and putting certain information like prefs and settings on the BACK of it. That's kinda clever. Imagine that done in a way where particular document preferences in an application could be viewed and tweaked. Stuff you don't need to look at all the time, like color settings or grids and guides or specs. I like it because you can associate particular information with particular document windows. And make that info doc specific. If it was pan-application preferences, or um, services, it might not be appropriate on the back.

No! please no. I already dislike having to flip the stickie widget every time I want to change a font! Imagine having to flip a window everytime in order to change a color? I prefer real-time manipulation. Thank you. I do see that the connection between the prefs and the object IS necessary, but I don't think this is the way.

So in this respect, I don't think prefs at back of window are necessarily a good thing to implement everywhere.

Even though I agree with the general consensus that widgets are somewhat bloated, there is a salvageable detail that caught my eye immediately. Notice how one can open a widget by dragging its icon to the desired destination. This morphs the icon into a new widget. In the case of the stickies widget, it makes a new note to the desired destination. The other usual alternative is clicking on an icon, and waiting for the widget to appear some random place; then localize the widget, and move it the desired destination.

The new morph-way is quite impressive. This is completely real-time. It's beautiful. It shortens the steps, makes it smoother and much efficient. I think we are seeing Less is More right here. I want to see more of this implemented elsewhere.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Trifid,

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homepage update, brothers, with how I see dashboard.

Well, that's sure laying it out there to welcome visitors to the site!

I'm wondering what the name of the clip art package was that you got the turd from.

Markle

quote:

I already dislike having to flip the stickie widget every time I want to change a font! Imagine having to flip a window everytime in order to change a color? I prefer real-time manipulation.

Oh, I agree, me too. That's not really what I was saying. For things like fonts and individual colors, where you want things applied to see in real time, the flipping wouldn't make sense. I'm talking more about document specific prefs and specs... color SETTINGS, profiles, the kind of things you normally set in prefs or document setup.

OR, like I said, it might make sense for the flipside to be the living, breathing, throbbing unix guts of whatever you're working on. In case the geek stuff needed immediate tweaking.

quote:

I'm wondering what the name of the clip art package was that you got the turd from.

Nah man, that was a free range turd.

I like the new frontpage.

The tiger animation on the left I find quite beautiful, and Steve popping his head through the Spotlight toilet seat is funny and original (though if Spotlight turns out to be OK, this animation won’t be so appropriate).

As for the turd, I find it funny too; and it’s not gratuitous; it does have a point ... unlike Apple’s turd splash.

I suspect that brothers who wanted the fists gone, won’t be thrilled to see them still there, with a turd and toilet seat added.

I think the front page will be quite intriguing to visitors who are Mac-users. It’s not something one passes by without a second glance.

As for other visitors, well maybe many of them will be repelled by the turd, I don’t know. I hope not. But then, this IS primarily a Mac site. So that wouldn’t bother me.

Let's just all hope that is not a free range thalo turd.

Welcome Brother Markle to apostlehood.

Thanks, brother yabor.

The turd is just bait. Done for the benefit of sensitive MacNN types, who I'm hoping will find it so utterly offensive that they'll go crying and ratting us out to Apple, and maybe that'll bring somebody from Apple here. And once here, there's a lot I'd love them to see. Even if they're here to try and see if they should send us a cease and desist, maybe they'll pick up the less is more message by osmosis, lol.

But for the benefit of any X-Men reading this, especially the recent hate-mailers: I want to make it perfectly clear that the only really 100% effective strategy against me, if you really want to stick it to me, is to simply ignore me. That's the secret. Stay away. Don't join, and never post. You're just gonna get your feelings hurt. Go on with your lives, enjoy your operating system and pretend I'm not scoffing at it and criticizing it every chance I get. Don't keep coming back to see if I'm still here, or to see if I've given up. The only way you're ever going to defeat me, or draw blood; and the only way you're ever going to really be able to use OS X as it was meant to be used, without the cloud of yours truly hanging over it... is to put me completely out of your mind. Do not continue to obsess about me. Just concentrate on how wonderful the operating system is, and never, ever acknowledge any of its shortcomings. Don't feed back to Apple, and find an online chat forum where negativity and criticism get summarily squelched. Apple Delusions and Mac Fixit should be your first choices. And while there, be sure to pepper your posts with adjectives like "fast, stable, ultra-modern, gorgeous, and state-of-the-art." Oh and feel free to use the word "super" in front of any of those, e.g. "super-fast, super-stable, super-gorgeous" etc.

OK you guys, eventually the home page is going to get changed to the less is more plain jane look we were talking about. I know many of you want to broaden our appeal, and have us appear less pugilistic. Rather than keep us the bad boys/ bastard children of MacFixIt, I understand some of you want to portray a different image, maybe scare up some more members. I'd be up for that. Although I still like my fists as the logo. Although I'm going to miss the turd. It's very sculptural and has an interesting texture and rich color.

I would like to see us hit 88 members. I'm a fan of the "Kill Bill" movies, and loved the crazy 88 scenes. Four more registrations to go.

About the widgets...

Konfabulator has about 1000 widgets. I imagine Dashboard will have more, given that it'll now be standard on every mac.

Something that would be cool, and that Apple seemed to completely miss (because they were busy replicating Konfabulator) is that... wouldn't it be great if I could search for widgets using Spotlight?!

I may have 25 widgets installed on the system and I would need to decipher every single icon, switching back and forth through the "next" batch of widgets on the widget dock etc...... A simple spotlight search could get me a spanish dictionary on the fly.. or a CPU meter.. or who knows what.

I mean, there is a stupid spotlight for system preferences.. I think a spotlight for widgets would have been much more useful =D

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There's animation on the front page? Why don't I see it? Quicktime 5 isn't good enough?

Markle the Apostle

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Oops, never mind; my fault. I had "Animate GIFs" turned off in my browser. All is well.

Markle the Apostle

Markle you have DSL now.

You can download Quicktime 6.5.2 with ease.