Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, well!

Hi, hi, hi, my brothers! If it isn't all the old droogies, come to play...

As I was cruising through the threads at MFI, I was astounded to see a reference and link to the actual, factual, authentic, real-live thalo.net. What was shouted out so long ago as a threat has now become a reality.

I was shocked to hear this news and reeled from the thought of it. So, after hurling an insult at the (there) absent man, himself, I vowed never to come over here.

But my curiosity always gets the better of me, and I ended up peeking, anyway.

And, much to my chagrin, after reading some selected posts, I have to say that you guys are much more calm, lucid, coherent, and generally cogent than I'd ever seen you over at MFI (Brad, excepted - he's always been so). I've actually read some X-Critic posts that are bordering on the profound

What gives?

Is it the lack of X-Men? Or just a more congenial atmosphere?

(All-in-all, I'd have to say that the site is very well done, by the way. Clean interface, no bloat. )

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What gives?

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You have been Master baited.

9Killer, well howdy-doody. Hot damn, yet another heavy-hitter from the ol' stompin' grounds (there aren't really any light-hitters at thalo.net…just the argumentatively-challenged). Will we still be saying such nice things to each other after a little "friendly" debate? Let's hope not. That would be too boring. But damn, it's good to see you here. Another bona-fide died-in-the-wool X-Man. We're going to be outnumbered soon and then thalo will have to take his ball and go home.

I have yet to lock horns with the big "T" himself, since I got here, but I don't think it would phase him in the least to be out-numbered. Hopefully I'm not lending him too much credence by saying this, but he'd be more like Neo fighting the multitudinous Agent Smiths in "the Matrix Reloaded."

9Killer said: I've actually read some X-Critic posts that are bordering on the profound

What gives?

Is it the lack of X-Men? Or just a more congenial atmosphere?

Wait a while. Things can get ugly fast. But seriously, I think when people know they can say just about anything then there isn't the need or the temptation to try and push the limits. When that is set aside I think people just generally stop playing these little games and say more of what's on their mind. That's my theory, anyway. And thanks for the kind words.

That said, I think one should still be prepared to expect anything - and actually to sort of look forward to it as you might a thunderstorm. Those too pass.

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Hopefully I'm not lending him too much credence by saying this, but he'd be more like Neo fighting the multitudinous Agent Smiths in "the Matrix Reloaded."

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Oooh, I like it. Red pill or Blue pill, baby? That's the choice you get here.

I think one of the major misconceptions has always been that X-Men think I hate them, merely because I torture and tease and make fun of them. Couldn't be further from the truth. I can't honestly recall any post I've ever written where I didn't have a smile on my face.

Haven't you ever been to sixth grade recess? Didn't you punch the girls you most liked in the arms the hardest? I don't hate nobody. I'm just pissed off at Apple. And even there, I love them, I'm just worked up over the crap they're dishing out.

I think there's always been a kind of dysfunction where "locking horns" gets confused with actual enmity online. There's too much baggage that gets projected onto something as simple and casual as online discourse. Happens in e-mail to me a lot. Have you ever written a girlfriend an e-mail, and made some offhand crack, and gotten a ten-page emotional tirade in return? I've actually been dumped on account of things that I've written in e-mails just to be funny. That's the stuff I'm fascinated by. The choices people make regarding what they will become offended by. Which is one of the reasons I start with those ten page emotional tirades, and then sneak in the real stuff. I think one of the options we all have, one of the possible answers to the question "what will I be offended by today?" is: "NOTHING."

Look, mixed up in this is the REASON trolls troll. So I figure, hey, why not be a 'troll with a soul' and see what happens? Maybe we'll all wake up to some of the reasons we humans sometimes have trouble communicating or expressing ourselves. We can at least look at, and poke fun at, the stuff that derails us from our destiny.

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I think one of the major misconceptions has always been that X-Men think I hate them,...

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No, I don't think you hate us. Even at the times I was personally freaking out about some of your posts, I knew that it probably wasn't anything personal on your part. That may have actually been part of what got me so upset. Sometimes you provoke for the cause - sometimes you just provoke. And to see somebody so casually chowing down on a thick steak, choice-cut from my personal sacred cow can be terribly upsetting. But, that's probably your whole point.

Anyway - no, I don't think you hate us. I think you hate what we like. We like what the Mac has become.

To us is still the same capable platform from which we can launch our creative forces, gather our personal libraries, and communicate with the people in our world. To us, nothing has changed except that even more potential has been added to our beloved Macs. Well, that and how often we have to reboot.

Yeah, but killer, my brother, I want all that stuff too. I'm all for potential. I'm also all for reality. There is nothing that OS X SAYS it's about, that I don't want... for me or anybody. Remember, I bought it the second it came out. I had it on that famous Saturday Fedex of the release date.

The IDEAS of symmetric multitasking, protected memory, stability, services... yadda yadda, are all things I want. I know OS 9 was getting long in the tooth. I hated crashes as much, if not more than anybody. What I object to, is lack of quality. Of boneheaded rookie design mistakes, of facile, dumbed-down half-assed execution of things that should be superior.

Most of all, I mourn the loss of intelligence and intuitiveness and responsiveness in the interface. To me, the mac has always been about the GUI. And now the GUI is total crap.

I don't hate people. I hate things that hold people back. And to me, those ideas are taking over the development of this particular operating system. Look at everything I rail at, and it's a roadblock being thrown up to human creativity and destiny. Preservation of the geek aristocracy... bloat... happy horseshit... eye candy...

It can be so much better. It will be so much better. Even if you and me and all us guys have to design it FOR Apple.

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...why not be a 'troll with a soul'...

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Now you're speakin' my kind of language, that gritty blues man groove. LOL.

"Are ya ready to Get Down with the Classic Clown? Put your fists together and welcome the Flip Lip...the King of Zing...the Troll with a Soul...the Man who's In Your Face with the Interface...the Master of GUI Hooie...the Slowest Working Pro in the Viz Biz: Platinum Theme Graphic Artist, Mr. Thalo dot Net!"

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"Are ya ready to Get Down with the Classic Clown? Put your fists together and welcome the Flip Lip...the King of Zing...the Troll with a Soul...the Man who's In Your Face with the Interface...the Master of GUI Hooie...the Slowest Working Pro in the Viz Biz: Platinum Theme Graphic Artist, Mr. Thalo dot Net!"

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yeah baby! Testify! I turn the brim of my porkpie up in the front. Midnight blue shades.

No comments on my Alex DeLarge references? Am I the only Kubrick fan left?

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Originally posted by 9KILLER:
No comments on my Alex DeLarge references? Am I the only Kubrick fan left?

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Sorry, it went right over my head. But I did rent Dr. Strangelove the other day. Hadn't seen that one in a great many years.

Heh, A Clockwork Orange rules!

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Originally posted by cybergoober:
Heh, A Clockwork Orange rules!

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Welcome cybergoober. No doubt you are very excited about the prospect of piles (or Pyles).

Oh, yeah - I have yet to see a Kubric film that wasn't a work of staggering genius - "A Clockwork Orange" especially. It's perhaps my favorite. (So far, the only ones I don't own are "Lolita" and the pre-"Paths of Glory" stuff.)

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Originally posted by Brad Nelson:
Welcome cybergoober.

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Thank you.

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No doubt you are very excited about the prospect of piles (or Pyles).

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Actually, no. Not really. While it's an interesting concept, I really could care less.

<< I have yet to see a Kubric film that wasn't a work of staggering genius >>

I would have agreed with you if I hadn't seen "Eyes Wide Shut."

It really takes some doing to make a film boring when it has Nichole Kidman naked in it.

I think a lot of artists reach a time in their lives when they just go empty. How many years is it since Bruce Springsteen did something really great? "The Rising?" Not even close. And borderline exploitative.

Markle

I'm glad this thread came through. First of all Kurt, of all the X-men at macfixit I think you are one of the more objective and coherent ones. It's good to see that you still maintain that posture.

Now, the thing with X-men is that they acknowledge very little if anything. That's the way it has always been since the OSX public (bloated) beta days (correct me if I'm wrong; I only joined macfixit the 10.1 days) I've seen tons of reasonable X-critic claims being refuted one by one by X-men, why? These X-men pose such attitude that no X-critic argument can come through. I've seen the same happen on the X-critic side. Why?

I blame X-men for having such evangelistic attitude toward a NeXT OS that was overdue and severely lacking in many respects. Their blinded attitude exasperated every single X-critic to the point where they killed any possible objective discussion.

So when I joined macfixit some time ago, (I like to be objective about arguments) X-men at Macfixit would give me such a nasty welcome. They refuted almost anything I would say. They had such a harsh attitude that no reasonable argument could come through. For example, I would argue that the dock lacked spring-loaded folders; they would say that the Dock was meant for launching not drag and drop. WTF? I would say OS X is slow and unresponsive, they would say OS X is fast "for them". After tons of discussion they would say that OS X is "fast for them" for them because they can multitask. ? ?? I said OS X lacked an essential GUI component: pop-up folders. They would said Dock menus serve the same purpose and implied that you could substitute pop-up folders with dock menus. ?? ?? As mAx would say "crap-settling at its best" And that's how the "hatred" and/or discomfort started between the two camps.

But the point is that, as objective as I tried to be, X-fanatism and lack of acknowledgment from the X-men, exasperated me to hell. I can assure you that the same thing happened to Thalo, Max and Brad 2/3 years ago. And I'm sure that at some point they tried to be objective about OS X. And I can imagine every single observation by x-critics (reasonable or not) being turned down by X-men. That's why I blame X-men.

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And, much to my chagrin, after reading some selected posts, I have to say that you guys are much more calm, lucid, coherent, and generally cogent than I'd ever seen you over at MFI (Brad, excepted - he's always been so). I've actually read some X-Critic posts that are bordering on the profound

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You know why is that? There are no Spherics or Crairkos telling you that OS X is not slow or bloated or candy. That's why.

Their [X-men's] blinded attitude exasperated every single X-critic to the point where they killed any possible objective discussion...I can assure you that the same thing happened to Thalo, Max and Brad 2/3 years ago. I'm sure that at some point they tried to be objective about OS X.

Good to see they still teach the methodology of revisionist history in school. I would hate to see such a fine tradition fall by the wayside.

And I can imagine every single observation by x-critics (reasonable or not) being turned down by X-men. That's why I blame X-men.

Imagination is a wonderful thing