Really, is there any hope that Apple finally listened to the Mac Faithful and put together a killer OS for the rest of us?

I said 10.2 was my last stop right after being awfully let down by 10.1. but I'm still hanging in there.

I think that this time around if 10.3 fails to deliver the goods once again I'll call it quits on Apple. They have to at least give me a freaking signal that they've got the message this time.

I think that this time around if 10.3 fails to deliver the goods once again I'll call it quits on Apple. They have to at least give me a freaking signal that they've got the message this time.

Max, my bags are already half packed. Glad you're hangin' in there though. I'm also hanging in somewhat because I have a few Mac-only programs that I depend on that have no Windows equivalent. I'll need to buy a new or used Mac (hopefully one that can run OS 9) in the not-too-distant future just to replace normal wear and tear. But I'm afraid that if you plan a future with the Mac you must learn to become one with the beachball. You must learn to accept Unix and Terminals and eye candy galore. They're adding drivers and other stuff to this OS, not subtracting. And frankly, from my experience with this OS, it seems to be a grand patchwork and all too fragile. Now I know that ol' Thalo has been pounding the fragile notion for quite some time but I must confess that I was Crap Settling along with the rest of them. I was being a bit forgiving (a bit, anyway). I knew OS X was a work-in-progress (at least the guts of it) and judged it accordingly. But there's no excuse for the interface. They wrote the book on that and then forgot to read it. But I have no confidence in the underlying system and little more for the longevity of Apple or for the longevity of support by the major software houses. The writing's on the wall, at least as far as I'm concerned, and it's not anti-aliased.

But if tomorrow they came out with a version of OS X that had an interface that looked and worked like it was meant for business (and meant business) then I might have another look. But looking and buying are two different things.

Brother mAx! Brother Brad!

Packing my bags is not an option because it would mean completely scrapping my infrastructure, and relicensing every single piece of software. So I'd rather fight than reverse-switch. And a fight it will be. Why? Because there is not nearly enough pressure on Apple to deliver the goods. The question for me is, can I hold out with OS9 while fighting the good fight?

You see, once I buy new hardware, it's all over. Now, I think I can nursmaid the old fleet for now... and I have a hot hand repairing Macs; but someday I will end up having to buy a CPU that's not dual boot. Then I'm stuck with OS X like it's my jailbird brother-in-law who lives with me and won't get a job. Plan A is voting with my wallet, no new hardware until X is in shape. Use OS 9 until everything drops dead. Plan B, if forced to buy new hardware, is use the Classic version of everything and buy no OS X software until the OS starts getting serious for pros. And all the while, pound "Less is More" into Apple's skull.

I must admit my hopes for Panther are not all that high. Apple is masterful at lowering expectations, then giving you a pubic-hair more than your lowered expectations... so you feel like things are moving forward faster than they really are.

I'm guessing that Panther will be more mind-metal than stripey. I think the look of Safari and iApps is more what they're heading for. They are getting the "Less is More" message, but are only giving teeny tiny token nods to it. I don't expect the interface to really be improved beyond minor things. Perhaps little touches here and there of slighty better solutions.

Classic will still be a dog. Of that I'm absolutely certain. Transparency will still be misused and overused...a given. Icons will still be over-rendered and upscaled. No brainer. The stuff I most hate about Jaggy will be the stuff I continue to hate about Panther.

But I know Apple. I know that pros have sent the message about certain things which are an emergency situation: stuff like Font rendering and anti-aliasing. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few minor improvements there. Just because the situation now is so ridiculous. What's going to get fixed is stuff where Windows is clearly kicking our butts. Font rendering is one.

Another ridiculous one is services. Apple will have egg on their face if they don't do something about that. That's a highly unfinished part of this OS... supposedly pan-application services, that don't work pan-application. Windows currently does a better job of making things feel accesible pan-app. There appears to be more cohesive access... with the Mac, we are learning that the services menu is pretty much broken. So that is probably going to start getting fixed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Open/Saves are addressed in some way. That's another completely absurd situation. Those and the Finder are about the worst file managment solutions in all of computerdom. Again, when friggin' WINDOWS can do it better, Apple will perhaps start moving on it. They've gone from worst to first in the past when things were completely moronic (the round mouse).

We may or may not get themes. If we do, it'll be a total skin job. No serious interface improvements, just more eye candy to distract people from the real issues. You'll hear things like "the new rainforest theme is utterly breathtaking!" But most of it will be total bullshit. I doubt very strongly we'll get a Platinum theme at this point. I'd love it, but I'd be very surprised. Certainly not one that builds on platinum's usability in any significant way.

In some ways, I'm hoping Panther will continue to build on the mistakes of the past two years, because then it will be easier to cause a revolution. You see, built into all this stuff is a ticking time bomb. It's all gonna get dated and irritating real fast, even to casual users and digikids. People may be overawed at first, but they eventually learn through usage when something is stupid. The more stupid stuff Apple keeps in Panther, the easier the stupid stuff will be to point out.

Thalo, I think your expectations are reasonable. I feel there's a whole Mac pro community that is in the same boat you are in. They may need and want new hardware but they are on the fence, waiting. It's like the Crapcific Plate has lodged against the North American one. Tensions are building and something has to give soon. Either they Crap Settle, Apple blinks or they move to Windows. A Crap Settler is going to call this "pent-up demand" but what it really is, of course, is reluctance. An RDFer is going to blame this all on the economy while a pro user is going to blame it on the LACK of economy of OS X.

I remember when I was younger and much more stupid and gullible. I heard that Apple was going to make an OS based on Unix and thought "Wow. A total re-write of the OS, and one based on a rock-solid and blazingly fast core! This thing is going to rock." I wasn't hoping to squeeze more life out of existing hardware although it was getting frustrating working with Navigation Services (those new open/saves that appeared) and Sherlock which was slow and cumbersome (I should have seen the signs but didn't). No. I wouldn't have sat on old hardware for long. A new, solid and fast OS would have definitely inspired me to buy new hardware and software. Of course, just the opposite occurred as we all know. We got a slow, buggy over-rendered slug. Instead of buying new hardware for a blazingly fast OS I gained a new appreciation for what I already had. Heck, OS X was the best advertisement yet for Windows. If I had to switch platforms and had to choose between XP and OS X the choice is hardly a difficult one.

The really odd thing about all this – especially considering the hard-wired Fischer-Price interface – is that Apple seemed to be saying that they were going to be serious about expanding the Mac, gaining market share, etc. They seemed to be intimating that they were going to learn some of the lessons of Microsoft. One of those lessons, of course, is that people generally use the same computer at home that they do at work so one would have thought that Apple would make a strong move to appeal to business. What do they do? They start off by first jettisoning and pissing off their existing core business market with a DigiKid-oriented OS. Next, they hard-wire this interface, something even XP doesn't do with their new "Luna" theme (which was seemingly just a knee-jerk response to Aqua and to pop culture). It was all a bad plan, badly executed.

What I would have to see from 10.3 to get me excited is a new plan. Do we see advertisements featuring the hard-working Max's and Thalos of the world or do we continue to see the stoned-out Ellens? Do we see an interface and system that's meant to do heavy lifting or do we continue to see one that screams "play with me!"?

quote:

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the Crapcific Plate has lodged against the North American one.

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hahahahaha.
Yep, feels like this OS is moving with geologic time, but only for pro users. People who don't know any better think the development is blazing along. "And look, I can even BUY music from iTunes!!!"

But Apple flounders. I guess they forgot one thing: Pro. Users. Have. More. Money. Than. Digikids.

After buying an iPod, digis are tapped out. Pros won't spend money on total crap. I am cynical enough to believe that when tensions peak, money talks.

I am literally sitting here ready to buy new hardware at any time. I want a 17 incher so bad (I mean the TiBook ) that I can taste it. So what's stopping me? Crappy software, oh, and did I mention crappy software?

The problem with dumbing down, is that nobody wants to pay more for the performance hit you have to swallow with it. And Apple is so crappy with games and surfing compared to PCs, that über digi-kid gamers won't touch it. Play UT2003 on a Mac...quite fun, I must admit. Play it on a cheap, cheezy PC... and it freakin' SCREAMS.

And, I have heard, ahem, from a friend that streaming internet porno is too slow on Macs. So slow, neither the Sopranos nor Goldmember even bother supporting it anymore.

To recap, gaming sucks, porno sucks... digikids won't buy high end systems for either. Who's left to pick up the pieces? Again? Right. The Mac Faithful. But to be fair, in the mix now is geeks. That's healthy, but not if all Apple does is preserve the geek aristocracy, which is exactly what they're doing. Geeks might be able to haul us out of the flames, because lord knows they won't settle for crappy porno or gaming.

If Apple could take the intolerance that über-digikids and geeks have for porno and gaming, and realize that crappy GRAPHICS apps, and a crappy INTERFACE drive the Mac Faithful just as nuts, they'll understand why they are not making squillions of dollars today. Economy schmoconomy. Good software for small Mac-based business in this industry would be a GODSEND right now. It would improve the economy. I picture paying freelancers BY THE HOUR and knowing in my heart of hearts that half of that hour is battling and twiddling a crappy OS... sorry, no thanks. But help me increase productivity, just by doing what they used to be as good at as breathing: providing an intuitive, commonsense GUI that WORKS. And watch sales soar. The Mac Faithful can turn on a dime and get their faith back, but faith is based on works, not empty promises and broken dreams. And oh god, not eye candy and triviality.

Heavy lifting is key, brother Brad is right. OS X does heavy lifting now! But it's lifting its own bloated stupidness. There's not enough left for me to ask a lot of it. This software needs to change at a fundamental level for pros. We need to cut the fat and bloat and overhead, and get a lean mean pro machine. If Apple does that, sales will be through the roof from the pro market. And maybe the other markets too. Sell these products with speed rather than fluff, and people will pay more.

If porno, gaming, and work are all better, who'd go PC? Let the crap settlers and digikids use a theme-changer to put some of the eye candy BACK if they miss it so much. But don't force it down the throats of people with work to do. I still say that this OS needs a week with a powerful crap-remover. It's gotta start being a subtractive process. The time for showing off eye candy is over. Both Windows and the Mac have this problem now. But in Windows you can turn it off.

All of Apple's resources now are directed to casual use. They want that market so bad they are willing to sacrifice the Mac Faithful. But they are doing it in such a boneheaded foot-shooting way that it's almost comical. If they could make a great OS for pros PLUS that casual use stuff, they'd rule the world. The secret to getting Apple to do that is stop making excuses FOR them, and start complaining TO them. Don't settle for performance hits because you get eye candy in return. Let them know that Quark and Photoshop and every big app you use PLUS THE FINDER has to work as good or better than the legacy. The interface has to be as responsive and nimble as Platinum, or no dice. No new hardware until they fix the crap.

[This message was edited by thalo on Wed May 14 2003 at 09:23 AM.]

Man, I don't know what to say to all that, Brother Thalo. That's more good nutshell material. The most substantive point I think (and there are many) is that Apple does not build the kind of computers that their self-proclaimed DigiKid market wants. Nothing wrong at all that they tried. Nothing ventured nothing gained. There could have been an enormous market just waiting to be tapped. But after several years now, isn't it about time to change the plan, to re-think the strategy? I know it's human nature to sit in a bunker and direct generals to move troops that just aren't there. But I think it's time to dig a hole and use that petrol that's been saved and incinerate Aqua and a few more assumptions.

Speaking of Crap Settling...

LMAO! Love it. Oh that's perfect.

Did I ever tell you about my beachball dreams? They are pretty screwed up, lord knows a psychiatrist could have a field day with them, but they're funny as hell (echo: hell hell hell...)

OK, I'm in a car driving down the FDR drive, except it's molten lava instead of pavement. My cat (died years ago) is on a kind of raft of rock floating in the divider. I loved that stupid cat. Anyway, here she is, meowing in panic trapped not only in rushing traffic, but with lava all around. I'm trying to get to her to save her, flooring it, weaving in and out of traffic... but the tires are melting and I can't get there. As I'm furiously trying to reach my poor cat in the middle of hell, what do I see but the spinning beachball. Huge, suspended in front of the car windshield. Then the car stops dead and won't restart. It starts sinking in the lava. I turn the key, beachball. "Meow! Meow!"...beachball gets bigger and bigger, spinning faster and faster and the damn car won't turn over--and then I wake up.

Nothing wrong with me!

They are pretty screwed up, lord knows a psychiatrist could have a field day with them, but they're funny as hell…

Ladies and gentlemen, please don't try this at home. I am an experienced dream interpreter having received my PhD in charlatology from Back of the Matchbook College. Dreams are nothing to be trifled with. They hold great meaning, and misreading them can cause irreversible brain damage.

OK, I'm in a car driving down the FDR drive, except it's molten lava instead of pavement. My cat (died years ago) is on a kind of raft of rock floating in the divider.

Notice that the setting is in a very public place; in fact, in the middle of a busy street. But the dreamer isn't entirely exposed. He's inside the relative safety of a car. In our crowded cities we all keep a psychological distance from the cacophony around us. But that barrier is at risk of being eaten away every day (the lava), particularly when we care about other things – external things – like cats. Our little cars, our shells, as safe as they are, can't hold everything we want or need. And that cat, distinct amongst all the actors in this dream, is out in the open, exposed. It's free but it is seemingly the most vulnerable.

I'm trying to get to her to save her, flooring it, weaving in and out of traffic…

We compete with others who are also in their own little psychological worlds all trying to get somewhere, to get what they want. There's a flow to the traffic. They're all moving in the same direction in the same lane. We combine and cooperate and help each other to live better. But other people can also be an obstruction. Notably, Thalo isn't smashing any of the other cars even as desperate as the situation is. He's weaving in and out of them trying not to do any harm.

…but the tires are melting and I can't get there.

Here we have to contrast that with "My cat…is on a kind of raft of rock floating...". Note the "floating". The cat does not appear to be in any imminent danger, although Thalo certainly is. The lava and melting tires are impending peril. But rescuing the cat is not the goal. She's okay. The cat is the passive component in the dream and quite literally "centered" sitting in the divider area quite still while traffic goes rapidly by, presumably in both directions. Everything else is active. The cat is aloof and quite literally above the fray going on all around it, solid as it is on its fire-proof rock (in contrast to the rubber tires) which has the double protection of being buoyant. The need is not so much to rescue the cat but to be rescued by the cat; to get to the safe ground where the cat is. The cat is sitting on something natural – a rock. Thalo is in a man-made car on a man-made road and is obstructed and stressed by being surrounded by a lot of man-made cars all of which are being consumed by rock – liquid molten rock in this case. The ground beckons.

As I'm furiously trying to reach my poor cat in the middle of hell, what do I see but the spinning beachball. Huge, suspended in front of the car windshield.

The beachball seems to be an obvious obstruction, a virtual stop sign. But its geometry is that of a circle. It has a center and clearly show it as it's spinning. It's an immediate point of focus and gives symmetry in contrast to the pandemonium going on all around outside. But it's not quite IN the car. It's just outside. The windshield provides a bit of distance and protection. The beachball itself does not look entirely unlike a cat's eye.

Then the car stops dead and won't restart. It starts sinking in the lava.

A clear sign to dispense with some of the "stuff" we cling to, material or otherwise, lest we go down with it. This stuff had provided some protection before, but now is a liability.

I turn the key, beachball. "Meow! Meow!"...beachball gets bigger and bigger, spinning faster and faster and the damn car won't turn over--and then I wake up.

This is the toughest part. The beachball seems at first glance to be just an obstruction, an energy sucker, a sign of powerlessness. The car won't "turn over" but the beachball spins faster. The beachball seems to be a threatening symbol. It's like a whirlpool, a Maelstrom – and it's getting bigger, presumably closer and more powerful. It seems to want to immobilize you, hypnotize you, and then drown you. Its spinning and the increased Meowing signify the urgency of the need for action. But what action? Then you wake up. You escape before being confronted with the question or the answer which only you can know. But you certainly wish to rescue that which you love and which is in danger of being lost and it ain't an OS. Consider that when the car came to a stop, when it was still, you started to sink. We all tend to think we must keep moving, advancing or else we are nothing.

Oh wow, Dr. Brad! I am more screwed up than I thought. The only thing is that the cat WAS in imminent danger and crying, her fur being singed. The whole dream felt like it was really an effort to rescue the poor innocent cat, like that was the goal... and things kept preventing me from getting to her, like the lava, the beachball. Like my car failing.

But cool interpretation! Still, I found it quite telling that the beachball became a symbol of obstruction. The only other time something that recognizable from the Mac intruded onto my dreams was during a sex dream when I thought I could do a command-z--but that's another story

Oh wow, Dr. Brad! I am more screwed up than I thought.

Dr. Brad. LOL. Of course, then I can respond to any goofiness by saying "Whut were yuh thinkin'?" (Assuming you're referring to Dr. Phil. If you're referring to Ruth then my recommendation is "You must masturbate!")

Still, I found it quite telling that the beachball became a symbol of obstruction.

Well, in all honesty, interpreting a dream says as much about the interpreter as the dreamer. You can damn near weave any kind of story from such a rich dream as that one. Personally I think leaving dreams nicely ambivalent is the ticket, but there were some obvious themes in that one. Yes, the beachball was an interesting symbol. It almost seems too pat. Assuming you're not making this up you can interpret it in many ways. At the deepest level you could see it as the threat of technology to dehumanize us, to take away our power.

These profound metaphors regarding thalo's dream, while interesting, seem a bit off the mark.

With all due respect for Brad, I'm not sure if he quite understands the New York references here.

It's quite simple. thalo is on the FDR Drive, aka the "East River Drive" and is closing in on the Houston St. exit.

The cat represents Katz's Delicatessen, which is right off the exit, on 1st Ave and Houston.

Here's the dilemma brother thalo faces. thalo has a subconscious craving for Katz's specialty - a nice, thick, scrumptious pastrami on rye. Aware of the fact that his God, Jobs, is a vegetarian (or vegan?) thalo is fighting off this uncontrollable urge to sink his teeth into one, and washing it down with a Dr. Brown's Cream Soda. Is there any doubt that this represents Microsoft, XP, and the Wintel platform?

What better barrier to reaching this decadent, tempting destination than Jobs, who personifies that ever-present deterrent- the infamous beachball. The evil spinning beachball, the demon that represents the reality of OS X and blatantly contradicts the speed/performance that Apple promises. The same beachball that makes the ravings and kudos of the X-men seem insincere and laughable. Smacks you right in the face like a ton of bricks at the most inappropriate times and says, "Hello, I'm not quite ready for prime time yet."

Go for it, brother thalo! Look in the rearview; take a quick glance at the sideview . Both right and left lanes are clear. Veer either way and make that sharp turn around that colorful demon, that spinning hindrance to a pleasurable and productive computing experience. Wave bye-bye to it and take a bite out of that lean, succulent, much improved pastrami, instead of the apple, which has now become rotten to the core.

LOL! And Lava = Mustard! It's all clear now. The island, a knish.

Last night I had a sex dream, but maybe all I wanted was a soft pretzel; or to lick the chopped liver out of the hole of a Zaro's bagel. It was complicated