Why switch to OS X rather than Windows? What are the advantages? What are the disadvantages? One way or the other we are talking about a platform change from the original Mac OS to a different one so why choose OS X? If you were coming to the choice fresh, today, a blank slate, would you select OS X over Windows?

My take on the choice is basically that neither platform is any great shakes. I have a slight preference for OS X, but it is slight and cannot make up for the disadvantage of buying into a niche platform that looks increasingly like a loser in the general personal computer market. If one is looking for an all-around general purpose computing device OS X ain't it, as it evolves more and more towards the home entertainment segment. For all-around usefulness and the sheer number of things you can do with a platform Windows has it beat all to hell. And Windows hardware choices and options are limitless and inexpensive.

Choosing Windows opens a whole new world of hardware and software choices. If the software or device works on a computer it most likely works on the Windows platform. It's the platform I use at work and is the platform our products are built upon, so I'm familiar with the way it works. I must use it. I'm not impressed with the way it works, but I am familiar with it. If you are going to use a computer in this world you must be familiar with Windows. The same cannot be said of OS X.

I am a Macintosh enthusiast and have been for many years. I just plain prefer the Mac and always have. OS X is, at its heart and in its workings, the current version of the NeXT OS. Back a few years ago I had a choice of the Windows, NeXT, or Macintosh OS. I chose the Mac OS. Now, the choice of the Mac OS is no longer an option. Given the current choices why should one buy into OS X/NeXT? Back then it wouldn't have been my second choice. If, back then, the Mac OS wasn't a choice (as is the case now) I would not have selected NeXT. That is the situation now and my judgement remains the same. Windows over OS X/NeXT.

My next home computer purchase will be, for the first time, a Windows box. I cannot see a compelling reason to choose OS X. What can it do that Windows cannot? The usability and feel of the platforms aren't strikingly different. It used to be that working with the Mac OS was a pleasure while working with Windows was a chore. Now, OS X is no more or less a pleasure or chore than Windows. What other advantage can it offer than can make up for it being a tiny niche platform that seems to heading into further specialization in the home entertainment market? The way I see it there are no really compelling reasons to choose OS X over Windows. The compelling reasons are all on the other side.

Why not join the rest of the computer work-a-day world and leave the geeks and the digikids to enjoy their hobbies on their hobby niche platform? Since we Macintosh users must switch platforms the question remains: Why switch to OS X rather than Windows?

Ouch.

I SO need a new computer at home and yours are exactly the kind of things I've been thinking since the very moment Apple failed —once again, this time with 10.2— to make OS X an acceptable alternative to our beloved MacOS.
Worse, my girlfriend, a web designer, hates OS X to the point of I'm the apologist at home (!!) and she's been insisting in getting a custom made killer XP box for months now.

God, I'm so tempted I almost can't wait to try Panther first...

Starting from scratch, as I effectively would have to, with my beige G3, SCSI, ADB, serial peripherals, etc., I would have to be nuts to buy a new system from the ground up just to stay out here on our shrinking niche.

In 2003, buying into a platform with less than a 3% market share that keeps dwindling, would be like buying stock in a company that went bankrupt last week.

<< According to a recent survey of Macworld subscribers, 68 percent of you will have OS X by summer. >>

Andrew Gore, Macworld, August, 2001, p. 11

Granted, he specified it was Macworld subscribers, still I can't contain my BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

Markle

Wait and see, huh mAx? For how long? I thought you did try Panther. I did. It's OS X. Instead of being 10.2 it's 10.3.

The last three years hasn't given you a good enough glimpse about the direction Apple is headed? Three years, mAx.

I know how you feel. I hate to stop using Macs. What can we do? No one sells them anymore. Either we switch to OS X or switch to Windows. Between the two I can't see where switching to OS X is the smart move.

Unlike thalo I don't believe Apple will develop a superior OS no matter how much pressure is put on them. I don't believe they are presently constructed to where they are able to do it. Besides, they think they just did it. If you nabbed these guys aside and told them OS X was not an acceptable piece of work they would be bewildered. They would sputter that it is a vast improvement over what came before it. Look, protected memory! A command line interface! Look at the GUI--it's just beautiful and has entertaining effects and pretty colors for "average" users. With OS X everybody's satisfied. It has everything for everybody. It satisfies high level UNIX geeks (like themselves) and those low, easily amused average users. Therefore, it must satisfied everyone in between (if there are any). Who got left out? Can't think of anybody. Not a soul. It covers the elite geeks and the easily entertained scumbag users. What more could you ask for? Asking for more just marks you as a misguided complainer who is unable to recognize a superior product and is probably a bit whacky in your thinking. Hell, we put that cartoon GUI in there for users just like you. We really didn't like doing it, but we did it for low level users like yourself and now you are not satisfied. The is no satisfying the scumbag user. You don't know what you want. Look, look at the pretty colors! We built a great OS for geeks and for everyone. It is a wonderful piece of work--and, and it wasn't easy to do!

mAx, what are you expecting? Do you think the folks at Apple are going to suddenly slap themselves on the forehead and exclaim. "Oh, my God! What have we done? It's not going to happen. Remember, they've worked hard at this. They thought, and still think, they've written a wonderful OS. They are proud of their work. Nothing very different is going to happen with the OS this year or next, probably not for the next few years. It will still be OS X In Panther, 10.3, Apple is turning the Finder into an iTunes clone Maybe next year Apple will release 10.4. What do you think--will they name it after another viscous animal? I'm easily entertained. I can hardly wait to find out.

So, that leaves us with a choice between OS X and Windows. Not a good choice? No it isn't. But, one offers more advantages than the other and it isn't OS X. If you are going to spend time and effort learning to be proficient on a different platform I suggest that time and effort will be better rewarded and more valued learning Windows proficiency than OS X.

HH said: If you were coming to the choice fresh, today, a blank slate, would you select OS X over Windows?

I just chose Windows again yesterday. I upgraded the motherboard, processor and RAM (to DDR). The old stuff is going to be used to soup-up an even older machine.

When Panther comes out I'll listen to the opinions of the people I respect and see where we are. Right now I'm just not going to spend any more money on OS X software. I would prefer to stay Mac. I've got a few old applications that are going to be very hard to replace. If the G5 could run OS 9 natively I would be very tempted to make at least one more Apple purchase. I could then basically extend my waiting game. The thing is, as primarily a printing company, I'm facing pressures every day to switch to Windows (and I do have a PC at work now). And let's face it; for every one thalo-like Pro there are forty non-pros and they are increasingly giving me documents that either require Windows or work far better on Windows.

Let's just say that if I were to give a friend some advice it would to buy Windows if it was for home use – no questions asked. That's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. If an up-and-coming designer wanted my advice I would probably also steer them towards Windows. Both Adobe and Microsoft seem to be slowly abandoning the Mac. The Mac itself is in a state of flux and Apple itself is hardly a sure bet for long-term survival. If I were to steer someone to the Mac now I would be speaking with my heart, not my head.

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mAx, what are you expecting? Do you think the folks at Apple are going to suddenly slap themselves on the forehead and exclaim. "Oh, my God! What have we done?

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That would be me.

As much as I have faith in the unlimited capacity for human beings to self-delude, I also know that they rise to tasks if you can find that one spark of Schicksalwollen in them.

Apple has, er--HAD a destiny. It was noble and changed the face of personal computing. We can't sit back and congratulate them for losing the nobility. That's what the crap-settlers are doing. This ain't a test to see how low we can set the bar for Apple, how LITTLE we can expect of them. That's not going to do them any good. This is one con we just can't let them get away with.

To change the way this is going, we have to call crap crap, and demand better. Who's fed back this week? OS X is going to keep heading on the road to crapville as long as you let these guys get away with dumbing down and denuding the Mac.

I'm not worried about the hardware: as long as Ive works at Apple. I'm not worried about the Mac appealing to casual users, although I think it needs to go farther than iTunes and iApps... The real problems, the real stinkwad, is the OS itself, and the interface. And I know that stuff can change.

Look, it already HAS... Panther is a whole new look. Somebody must have said it sucked, because Apple changed the look. We can keep doing that. We can hammer away at "Less is More" until they friggin' get it. Pros, most of all, need to open their mouths. They need to refuse to be conned.

We have to lead the way. Let crap-settlers lead the way and what do ya think we'll get? Hands? Guesses?

An up and coming designer? I'd lead them straight to the legacy. I don't know if you guys are keeping tabs on dual boot machine prices, but it's unbelievable. That means demand. That means pros are gunshy. And it ain't because we don't want G5s. We do. It's because, I'm sorry to say, the operating system is lousy. But that can change. Yes it can. Stupid things HAVE to change. If you give up and LET stupid breed stupid, without putting a stop to it, you won't sleep at night. And OS X and Aqua are stupid. Crappy lowbrow stuff has a shorter half-life than timeless excellence.

It's always darkest before the dawn, my brothers. Sanity will win out over stupidity, I know it. First off, bloat is self-defeating to begin with. And the more people work with the software, the more the nut-driving bullshit will stop being tolerated. People will get sick of it. And they'll soon realize that changing the eye-candy ain't fixing what's wrong. What's wrong runs deeper.

And just because a problem runs deep, don't mean it can't be solved. It's not going to be EASY to grab Apple by the lapels and mock turtlenecks and tell them that we want "Less is More"... that we won't crap settle... but nothing worthwhile is ever easy.

Here's my worry: WINDOWS will get the "Less is More" message before Apple. That THEY will make a streamlined, pro-capable OS geared toward pros. Say, for example it's Microsoft who gets inspired to reinvent GUIs according to a new and brilliant set of user interface guidelines? What if they stop dumbing down and downtalking FIRST? Suppose it's them who takes the best of the legacy MAC, and takes some of that stuff to the next level? Lord knows they'ver ripped Apple off before.

If that happens, even I will switch. Blasphemy coming from me, I know. But the first one to give the finger to the age of the work-in-progress, and the first one to make a killer, minimal, Pro GUI and software that works better, gets my money.

I still think Apple can pull it out. They are still the better idea men. They've just lost their minds. They're listening to Marketeers and NeXT people. They're not building on the strength of the legacy Mac, which is the magic bullet.

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An up and coming designer? I'd lead them straight to the legacy.

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That's what I do to an up and coming interface specialist. But an end user? It would be analogous to someone asking me where to find the best library. There are several I could send them to but I just wouldn't have the heart to give them a tour through the smoldering ruins of the Library of Alexandria.

LOL brother Brad!

Except OS 9 isn't in smoldering ruins. In my industry it's still the operating system of choice. Everything from design studios to prepress houses still rely on it. If you're a freelancer and want a job at a hot shit studio, you have to know how to design on a Mac. I'm sorry, but I still think that the creative industry COPES with Windows, but lives and breathes Mac. It's not microsoft driven, not yet anyway. As usual, it's the last bastion of the Mac Faithful.

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Except OS 9 isn't in smoldering ruins.

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I'm installing 9.1 on my brother's iMac right now so I guess you're right.

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I'm sorry, but I still think that the creative industry COPES with Windows, but lives and breathes Mac.

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That used to be the case, but Windows has gotten better and is more prevalent. We're now coping with OS X!

Still, I'm not defending my "Prohood" here. I know what I can do and what I can't do and I'm fine with that. And I've seen more than a few thaloesque Pros so I know how they tick. I know what the highest standard looks like. But I'm starting to see more Pros on Windows.

Look, it already HAS... Panther is a whole new look. Somebody must have said it sucked, because Apple changed the look. We can keep doing that. We can hammer away at "Less is More" until they friggin' get it. Pros, most of all, need to open their mouths. They need to refuse to be conned.

They toned down stripes but didn't eliminate them. Okay, if you want that to be a feather in your cap. They made the Finder more like iTunes. Is that really what the pros want? I wonder if they rewrote it as a Cocoa application and if that will add any speed/usability? Sure, they added labels, but in a way the pros find acceptable/usable? They love the pros so much, they have even added an additional application zoom effect instead of popup folders. 'Cause we all know the pros love every show-off effect in the book. With what I have seen, it looks like Apple is fixing and adding whatever they damn well please, probably with little input from the end-users. In fact, all I still see is the thalo's of the world "punching their pillows with their little balled up fists" in anger over what has been a perceived neglect. Okay, if the labels implementation, new brushed metal Finder browser, and toned down but larger stripes are what you are need to claim victory and make you feel as if you are being heard, then, by all means, have your moment.

I am looking forward to all the new goodies in Panther.

[This message was edited by mithradites on Sun August 03 2003 at 03:19 PM.]

I think this (QT/MAC) may also solve some of the problems of application availability for OSX.

I guess I'm starting to see more pros on Windows too. There are a lot of people disgusted with Apple right now, so I'm not surprised.

I know in my black little heart of hearts, that a whole lot of the Mac Faithful will come home, just as soon as there's a real reason to love Apple again. A reason that's not all in our imaginations, but that has at least a big toe in reality. And it won't take much. All they really have to do is stop scamming and start working. One operating system worthy of being called a Mac, and all is forgiven.

This bullshit NeXT retread ain't it. OS X still can't pass the thalo test. One day with me working normally, that's all. One day head-to-head with OS 9. When it can pass the test, then it's all about the design of the interface. I think that battle is going to be easy, because Aqua is absurdly stupid. The window widgets don't pass interface 101. The open/saves are about the worst in computing history (perhaps addressed--FINALLY--in Panther). Moving targets in the Dock, and upscaled visual superabundance are EASY to argue as not friendly to pros.

Hey, you know what I was just thinking about? Remember Apple's attempt at AURAL feedback in Platinum? i.e. Platinum Sounds? I know some people who loved those. I friggin' couldn't stand them. Which is not to say that I don't think there is a place for aural feedback. It just hasn't been carefully thought out. But guess what, Aqua could NEVER handle anything like that. I just know it. There is just no way. It's another thing Apple engineers could never make feel responsive, or get to work. The lag between the OS catching on, and playing a sound I imagine as just too great. By the by, has anyone noticed that there really is very little in the way of interface sound usage? You don't hear that alert sound much, even when you should. I mean I see a checkbox for "play user interface sound effects"... what's that, exactly, the trash sound? The Dock Poof? Oh yeah, nice and responsive. Mine go off a good second after the act.

I have a sound for incoming e-mail, but holy crap the lag is unbelievable sometimes. I'll open the e-mail and be halfway through it before I hear the chime. That's what I'm talking about. The Mac has lost the sense of IMMEDIACY that it used to have. Guess what, I want to hear the freakin' smoke alarm the second there's smoke, not after I go unconscious from breathing it in.

I hate those lags. I hate how slow to update things are. I hate the feeling that after I do a command, that the operating system will get around to it later. I hate having to tell the OS things twice or thrice (and then STILL not have it get it). If a piano player hit an ivory, and suddenly it took a second for the sound to come out, they'd get a new piano.

If your car only braked or accellerated when it friggin' FELT LIKE IT, instead of when you pushed the pedals, you'd get a new car.

Hey, you know what I was just thinking about? Remember Apple's attempt at AURAL feedback in Platinum? i.e. Platinum Sounds? I know some people who loved those. I friggin' couldn't stand them. Which is not to say that I don't think there is a place for aural feedback. It just hasn't been carefully thought out. But guess what, Aqua could NEVER handle anything like that.

I am using Xounds from Unsanity. I haven't noticed any significant lags. When I WindowShade, close a window, move a window, eject a disk, whatver, the sound is instananeous almost all the time. There are one or two lags when I am using my processor heavily, but otherwise, all the sounds I use din OS9 are in OSX. And they work well. I'm guessing that NeXT didn't have the same capability, and "aural feedback" like Platinum soundsets was a low priority, like labels and popup folders.

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…they have even added an additional application zoom effect instead of popup folders.

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That's an interesting matter, Darr. I don't remember how far it goes back, but if you open a file from the Finder you get the zooming rectangle. That effect is supposed to support the idea that a transition is underway. You're going from the miniature tokenized icon in the Finder to the real thing. In truth, I've always turned them off (when possible) to make things faster (a small increase of speed but what the hell).

It looks like this new zoom effect simply takes the icon and makes it larger. It's sort of a spring-loaded open. But I wonder if that's where it stops? I wonder if it keeps zooming to full document size while morphing from the icon to the actual contents of the document window? It's a bit difficult to only intellectually critique some of this stuff without having used it, but I would prefer that the zoom, if they're going to have a full pictorial zoom, do the entire zoom (extremely quickly) and not just that little bit at the start. The former behavior may not be "less is more" but it make sense – at least in the scheme of Aqua. The latter behavior (the one portrayed in the QuickTime preview) looks like they simply found a new way to annoy me.

Whatever it is, I'd be very surprised if there will be an option to turn it off and an option for a simple Zoom rect.

That's funny, brother miths. I just loaded Xounds, and am horsing around with it right now, and I find it inconsistent and really easy to trip up. Wiping my cursor over the system menu icons, in particular, seems to really confuse it. I get a freeze-up menu highlight.

I sometimes get the sounds for certain windows, and sometimes don't. It's really weird. I get no scroll sounds anywhere (are those supposed to work?), and only sporadic control sounds (buttons and widgets). For example, I notice the window widget sounds don't work on the System prefs window.

As for lags, you're right, they get worse with processor activity. They slowed down, for example, when my e-mail was being checked. But I will say this, the text menu item sounds in the menubar are pretty darn responsive. I haven't been able to break those yet. The Dock is another story. The lag on there reflects the regular Dock popup problems... you know, that whole first time's the charm business. I can't blame unsanity for that.

OK, that's enough nut-driving for me. Gotta go turn it off.

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I know in my black little heart of hearts, that a whole lot of the Mac Faithful will come home, just as soon as there's a real reason to love Apple again. A reason that's not all in our imaginations, but that has at least a big toe in reality. And it won't take much.

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I could sit down with Bill Gates and in an hour go down a checklist of things to fix that would relieve Windows of a good many of its annoyances. No major overhaul of the underlying technology would be required. The same could be said of OS X. (And as you've said, brother thalo, if the interface annoyances were out of the way we could be a bit more patient on some of the stability issues. Heck, that's what geeks do best anyway.)

But I don't think all Pros are as anal retentive as some of us when it comes to the interface, although they usually are when it comes to their own work. The reality is that most people adapt to whatever roadblocks or annoyances are thrown in their way by an OS or software and then forget about them. It quickly becomes a case of "that's just the way it works." The differences between the Mac and Windows aren't as great as they used to be. And you know what that means for Pro-appeal. That means the Mac, now more than ever, has to be even more oriented toward the elimination of annoyances, toward the elimination of the little things in a computer that are time-wasters and mistake-causers. If that isn't the case then the Mac will not stand out as demonstrably better. Perhaps that's why we have all this emphasis on either the technology of OS X or the bright, shiny, bouncy things. Both are arguable easier to do than the type of work Raskin and others did in the 80's.

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Hey, you know what I was just thinking about? Remember Apple's attempt at AURAL feedback in Platinum? i.e. Platinum Sounds?

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I played with the Star Trek sound set once. It was really cool and the sounds were very appropriate for the actions taken. It was really very well done.

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By the by, has anyone noticed that there really is very little in the way of interface sound usage?

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My god, don't tell me you want Apple to do for sound what they've done for the graphical parts of the interface? I'm looking forward to your spoof on this concept, BT, as only you can do. I don't know if the additions of sounds would choke the system. I wouldn't doubt it. I can imagine opening a few files and then a minute latter hearing "pop, pop, pop" and wondering what the hell Photoshop was trying to tell me.

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The Mac has lost the sense of IMMEDIACY that it used to have.

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I'm not sure if they exploded the concept of Direct Manipulation or Feedback and Dialog or both.

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My god, don't tell me you want Apple to do for sound what they've done for the graphical parts of the interface?

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Oh lord no, but it's awfully curious to me that they haven't. And judging by the way even the trash sounds are laggy, there's a reason that Aqua isn't fury AND sound. Actually, the unsanity thing was a bit better than I assumed it was going to be. So the guys with the chimp icon that is THE metaphor for the way that I think geeks view the user base, seem to be more talented at making chimpware than Apple.

Meanwhile, their haxie for labels is at least an attempt. While Panther's solution reeks of an end run around a problem.

Oh, Apple has exploded direct manipluation, feedback and dialog long ago. Along with Aesthetic Integrity. Whatever happened to
"Keep the graphics of the display simple. The number of elements and their behaviors should be limited to enhance the usability of the interface. Graphics--icons, windows, dialog boxes, and so on--are the basis of effective human-computer interaction and must be designed with that in mind. Don't clutter the screen with too many windows, overload the user with complex icons, or put dozens of buttons in dialog boxes."??

I could be wrong here, but I think system sounds appeared before The Return of the King (aka Jobs). If so, no wonder he excised it from OS X.

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Meanwhile, their haxie for labels is at least an attempt. While Panther's solution reeks of an end run around a problem.

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I've never managed a company with more than a couple employees but I'm pretty sure I could run Apple. All I would need is a checkbook and a telephone. Whatcha do, see, is get a bare bones interface worked up on a very stable core. Then you look at the best of what the Mac developers come up with and you start writing checks. You write a check to Unsanity for FruitMenu, Labels X and Windowshade X. You right a check to whoever comes up with the best ASM-like program. Forgot to mention that you first disclose a few necessary APIs or other secrets, because you then write a check to whoever comes up with the best Dock replacement. You write a check to one of the best theme makers (and switching programs). You write a check for the best TinkerTool-like utility. And, of course, you write a check for the best open/save replacement software.

What I've got is then already an improvement. A little tinkering here and there to give it some consistency and semiotic sense, as you say, and we're miles ahead of where we are now and we've spent – what? – a few million dollars?

First things first: Brother Arlo, good point, and glad you haven't gone yet. I'm not 100% sure either, but I think you're right. I always thought of platinum sounds as pre Jobs II. I don't particularly care for system sounds (I think aural feedback could be much better in 9 and X)... but you know what? I don't like some of the pattern I'm seeing. Things like Avie abandoning NuKernel 'cause it wasn't his, Jobs perpetuating his commercially unsuccessful NeXT stuff, killing Mac stuff that happened when he wasn't there (or that's too hard to do a-la-NeXT). I'm not sure what this says about Apple management. All I know is that it's left us with a weaker product thanks to it.

I don't know if I could run Apple per se. I'm a designer, Jim, not a Corporate CEO. But man oh man, I know... just KNOW I could do a better job with that interface, make it adhere better to the spirit of the AHIGs. Make it a Mac again. Give me a month with it, just to reconceive it... and I'd have Apple poised to rule the world in no time.

I like your idea of getting unsanity and others on board. I think the japanese guy who wrote COELA is probably the kind of übergeek we need... he had a better column-view Finder, including labels and sort by date, in record time. He showed up Apple engineers very badly. With shareware.

As time goes by, I keep asking myself what I love most about the Mac (hardware and software)... and one of the things I keep coming back to is the CINEMA DISPLAY. Great damn monitor. Might be the source of some of OS X's problems (no X-Man I've spoken to who likes OS X has the Cinema Display; and I think it's a very common monitor for pros).

Anyway, I see those TFTs getting bigger and higher res (sheet of plywood/bulletin-board sized... but which can show 8pt italic actual size as crisp as the printed page)... but I don't see the INTERFACE getting bigger in scale to accomodate that. I see more like a big, honkin' work area with a simple interface that's kind of like a HUD in an aircraft. Very minimal, and VERY smart.