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THALO.net divinity
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Apple has announced Leopard has been pushed back to an October release date due to resources being diverted to the iPhone launch.

quote:
Apple Statement

iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can’t wait until customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a revolutionary and magical product it is. However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price — we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned. While Leopard's features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're sure we've made the right ones. [Apr 12, 2007]
 
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Master Baiter
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[roll]eye[/roll]
 
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THALO.net brother
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quote:
Originally posted by thalo:
[roll]eye[/roll]


http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2007/04/translating_the.html

This won't be the last Leopard delay.

Pathetic if you consider that after all of the delays, they'll once again ship a beta-version.

On the other hand, it fits their greater strategy: With 10.5 delayed (and there'll be more delays), more people will just install Vista on their "Mac".

Memories of Copland.
 
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THALO.net prophet
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Are they throwing manpower at the iphone-project as they're throwing CPU/GPU-Power at OS X? Hugh? Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 1098 | Location: Earth | Registered: Fri May 28 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thalo.net Skeptic
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.
To state the obvious....

Giving priority of resources to the phone rather than the Mac, after dropping "Computer" from their name, shows the status of the Mac in Jobsland.

Still, now that Macs will be able to run Windows, I guess my next computer will have to be a Mac to keep all options open.

Will Classic still be on the System disk that comes with the computer?
.
 
Posts: 3205 | Location: Agoura Hills, California | Registered: Sun June 08 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Master Baiter
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Right. That's stating the obvious. Gizmo sales are going to make Apple more money than their computers... UNTIL, that is, they start making GOOD computers with a GOOD operating system. That's proved too tough for them. But gizmos are easy to make, they do less, and fit better in Apple's "Age of the Work In Progress" strategy.

They can not finish a gizmo, release it semi-operational, and when they fix the bugs, release it again and get everyone to rebuy it. Because computers are more of an investment, they aren't as disposable. Apple has done everything in their power to MAKE them disposable, but so far haven't stumbled on the magic it takes to make digikids buy new systems every year, the way they do iPods. Or the way they will for phones.
 
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BN
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quote:
They can not finish a gizmo, release it semi-operational, and when they fix the bugs, release it again and get everyone to rebuy it. Because computers are more of an investment, they aren't as disposable. Apple has done everything in their power to MAKE them disposable, but so far haven't stumbled on the magic it takes to make digikids buy new systems every year, the way they do iPods. Or the way they will for phones.


Holy crap. I think there's a ton of truth in that. I don't hear any of the usual (not usual for you, buy usual for Macheads in general) denial that the thing Apple is concerned with is making money. And I think you are right that making one-trick-pony gadgets is infinitely less difficult than things such as operating system (but I still would not consider things such as the iPod easy). I just think it's easy for them to get bored with big, monolithic projects such as operating systems in general. Perhaps that's why we tend to see gadgets being added ceaselessly onto OS X, despite their functionality, or without a concern for fixing the core elements already in place. They're just bored by it all. Apple is a company now driven by the mentality of sugar-rush kids, not thoughtful adults. And although I think kids can be quite thoughtful, I think you know what I mean.

We live in the age of the sugar-rush and it's getting worse. I can't blame Apple for not spitting into that wind. Why do so if there is so little money in it? And although there is always a niche market for the finer things in life, it's not as big a market as the one that buys up McDonald's milkshakes which are, in case you haven't noticed lately, absolute crap. But they sell "billions and billions." No one has ever gotten poor underestimating the stimulus-response aspect of the human brain to shiny things, sweet things, or noisy things.

I don't expect Apple to buck this trend. There are no high-ideals left there except to make money by just taking the usual crap and putting their spin on it. And I don't necessarily consider making money a low idea, but they should never kid themselves into thinking that they are doing anything to "change the world." They're simply like yet another person who has stuck a piece of gum under the desk. It's common and doesn't really add much to the desk.
 
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HH
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quote:
Originally posted by BN:
(but I still would not consider things such as the iPod easy).

That's only because you don't know how it's done. Basically, you buy the chip from here , here or here , or a number of other manufacturers. You write or hire someone to write firmware for it. Oftentimes the chip manufacturers have firmware that will work perfectly fine with little or no changes. You add a slick case, a battery, an LCD display, a button or two for controls, and an earphone jack and you have yourself a MP3 player. Sometimes you need to add a RAM chip and sometimes the MP3 chip has enough of its own onboard RAM. It's not difficult engineering. Pretty simple. Apple isn't pushing the frontiers of engineering. All the inventiveness contained in this product is in the marketing.
 
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Master Baiter
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This is why I've been saying for years that Apple sold its soul. All the development they've been doing is market driven. And as Johnny Ive would say, that pretty much equals creative bankruptcy.

Apple has not innovated in technology as much as they've made a few impressive toys. I won't take that away from them, the slickness of the design is art in itself. But what we actually get, as opposed to what we THINK we're getting, is a bit skewed. It's what I've been calling tricorder syndrome. Our imaginations fill in where the technology or implementation falls short... and that's buttressed by clever marketing.

Apple doesn't even TRY to fight the casual use pigeonhole anymore. See the latest Mac/PC ad for a total admission that Apple's actually PROUD of being considered slacker, time-waster crap, while PCs do heavy lifting and care about productivity.

To reclaim its soul, Apple has to realize that as Real Estate is to Location, Location, Location, so too is the personal computer to Interface, Interface, Interface. And if you game the interface, and allow the marketeers to make it a leveraging scheme, then you install the con-jobs of marketing, right into the software. And this is exactly what has happened with OS X.

OS X was created to take a basically FREE retread of Nextstep, cut production costs by letting the great unwashed opensource movement provide FREE development, and slap on an overdesigned spinning-gears circus of an interface to appeal to a narrow casual use demographic... and then SELL the whole mess at a premium. A huge markup. It really is a masterful con-job. Crappy casual use beta freeware software, virtually no innovation, sold as a viable commercial product. Apple's biggest job is actually only HIDING the fact that the software doesn't--and hasn't ever--actually worked.
 
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BN
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quote:
That's only because you don't know how it's done. Basically, you buy the chip from here , here or here , or a number of other manufacturers. You write or hire someone to write firmware for it. Oftentimes the chip manufacturers have firmware that will work perfectly fine with little or no changes. You add a slick case, a battery, an LCD display, a button or two for controls, and an earphone jack and you have yourself a MP3 player. Sometimes you need to add a RAM chip and sometimes the MP3 chip has enough of its own onboard RAM. It's not difficult engineering. Pretty simple. Apple isn't pushing the frontiers of engineering. All the inventiveness contained in this product is in the marketing.


I may dislike the direction Apple is going, and maybe for those well-versed in manufacturing and marketing products all this is easy. But just because I don't like something, or think it frivolous, I have to acknowledge the skill, effort, and difficulty of making and marketing anything successfully. That's no small achievement. If it was easy, everyone would be rich like Steve Jobs.
 
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BN
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Will Classic still be on the System disk that comes with the computer?


Markle, I'm not sure if anyone has gotten to your question. I'm very sure that you can't run Classic on one of the Intel-based Macs.
 
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Thalo.net Skeptic
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I should have realized that going to a different chip would break Classic and Power-PC-based apps. You'd need a new emulator and Apple obviously doesn't have the resources or the inclination to write one.

So going to my next computer will REALLY cut the cord and make me start over from scratch.
.
 
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Thalo.net Skeptic
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Found this through Google News.
quote:
Apple's Leopard delay may signal deeper problems

By Troy Wolverton
Mercury News
Article Launched: 04/12/2007 02:46:56 PM PDT

Apple's ambition may be starting to get ahead of the company's ability to achieve it.

Renowned in recent years for its operational excellence, Apple in the last two months has delayed two high-profile products, the Apple TV set-top box and now, it said Thursday, Leopard, the upcoming update to its OS X operating system. The company pushed back the release date of Leopard so it wouldn't have to delay an even more highly anticipated product, the iPhone.

The problem Apple is running into is that it's a relatively small company compared to tech giants such as Hewlett-Packard or IBM, said Van Baker, an analyst with research firm Gartner. As of last fall, Apple had about 18,000 full-time employees, compared to 156,000 for H-P, according to the companies' annual reports.

"Clearly there's evidence that they're not executing to the same level they have in the past," said Baker.

While Apple hasn't been known for such delays, they're not surprising, Baker said, noting that Apple is "broadening their product offering, and they have only so many engineering resources to go around."

Apple said on Thursday that it was delaying Leopard, the fifth update of its OS X operating system, because it had to pull some of its engineering and quality assurance personnel from that project to help out with the iPhone. The much-hyped device, which Apple plans to release in June, will contain a new, slimmed-down version of the OS X operating system, which powers Apple's Macintosh computers.

The move follows the delay in shipping Apple TV. ...

By delaying Leopard in favor of the iPhone, Apple is obviously showing which product it thinks is more important. Given the hype around the iPhone and its potential, that's not surprising. But it likely won't come without a cost, a fact Apple acknowledged in its statement.

"Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're sure we've made the right ones," the company said.

But by shifting resources to the iPhone away from Leopard, the company is favoring an unproven product that will compete in a very challenging industry, notes Richard Shim, an analyst with IDC, a market research firm.

The delay - and the reason behind it - are "a risk and a sign of how Apple is changing and diversifying," said Shim. "It's also a sign that they'll have to be more careful with spreading themselves too thin."

When Apple released Tiger, the last version of its operating system, two years ago, the program helped boost the company's overall software sales by more than 50 percent. Analysts have been expecting similar results with Leopard, which promises a number of new features, including a new backup program called Time Machine and advanced 3-D animation features.

Now Apple will have to wait several months for those sales, which will now come after the end of its fiscal year in September. That could lead analysts to lower their sales and earnings estimates for the company this year - and potentially lead to a lower stock price.

Indeed, in after-hours trading following Apple's announcement of the Leopard delay, the company's stock fell $1.94, or 2.1 percent, to $90.25.

But the delay could have a wider effect for Apple, potentially hurting near-term sales of its Macintosh computers during the important back-to-school season.

Perhaps more importantly, the delay gives archrival Microsoft extra time to convince computer shoppers debating between the two that its new Windows Vista operating system is every bit as good as OS X.

...

The delay in Leopard and the earlier delay with Apple TV may serve as a reality check for investors and analysts who have been expecting big things from Apple. Indeed, many have been salivating at the thought that the iPhone or Apple TV may become as big a hit as the company's iPods.

In recent years, investors have had little reason to fear that the success of those products might be affected by Apple's own operational problems.

Last year, for instance, the company rolled out its first-ever computers based on Intel's processors some five months before it had promised them. And the company has updated its iPod lineup regularly, adding new models and completely revamping older ones.


Article
 
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BN
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I should have realized that going to a different chip would break Classic and Power-PC-based apps. You'd need a new emulator and Apple obviously doesn't have the resources or the inclination to write one.

If I were a prognosticator and journeyman mind reader (oh wait…I am), I would say that, although completely breaking Classic wasn't the reason for moving to Intel (and a lot of people are scratching their heads for reason why they did), it didn't hurt. Power-freaks such as Jobs often have vindictive streaks that run very deep. I wouldn't put it past him that burying OS 9 once and for all had its appeal.

So going to my next computer will REALLY cut the cord and make me start over from scratch.

You know me, Markle. When it comes to computers, all I really care about is what works. It's nice if the computers look nice. There's no reason they shouldn't. It takes just as much plastic to make an ugly case as it does a nice looking one. But I've just had tremendously good luck with Windows XP. It's incredibly stable and predictable. It's unnecessarily stupid about a great many things, but I'm sure at least a few of those things have been fixed in Vista.

Considering that you're rather conservative in regards to computers (you're not running out and buying the latest and greatest every year or two), you live on a different time continuum than most of us (and I live on a different one than the thalos and Ricos of the world). And there's a good chance that Apple might not even be making computers a few years hence. There's no doubt that Microsoft will still be making and improving their operating system. If it's just a question of ideology, who you can't stand worse, then just go with OS X and hold your nose. It's not all that bad for some things. But if you want something that's better now, that is easier to upgrade and repair, then choose Windows. I don't even think it's a close call at this point.
 
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Thalo.net Skeptic
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quote:
although completely breaking Classic wasn't the reason for moving to Intel (and a lot of people are scratching their heads for reason why they did)

Can't be totally sure I'm right, but I've been thinking it was so the Mac could run Windows natively. Thus you end the OS wars, relieve people of having to choose, expand the sale of Macs, with all their hip iPod-related mystique, into the Windows world, and let people get two computers for just slightly more than the price of one.

As I've said, the ability of new Macs to run Windows is the reason that my next computer will p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y be a Mac.
.
 
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BN
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As I've said, the ability of new Macs to run Windows is the reason that my next computer will p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y be a Mac.

Well, there's certainly utility in being able to do that. The only problem is that OS X is an unsnappy leaded bloat.
 
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THALO.net brother
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quote:
Originally posted by HighHopes:
quote:
Originally posted by BN:
(but I still would not consider things such as the iPod easy).

That's only because you don't know how it's done. Basically, you buy the chip from here , here or here , or a number of other manufacturers. You write or hire someone to write firmware for it. Oftentimes the chip manufacturers have firmware that will work perfectly fine with little or no changes. You add a slick case, a battery, an LCD display, a button or two for controls, and an earphone jack and you have yourself a MP3 player. Sometimes you need to add a RAM chip and sometimes the MP3 chip has enough of its own onboard RAM. It's not difficult engineering. Pretty simple. Apple isn't pushing the frontiers of engineering. All the inventiveness contained in this product is in the marketing.


Exactly.

mp3-players today are - technically - easy. Any small taiwanese outfit can build you one in no time at all. Mobile phones, on the other hand, are different beasts. Especially if you want to do other things than phoning with 'em.

I guess Big Steve thought he could pull off the iPhone as easy as the iPod (hey, they both start with "i" to begin with) and hit a brick wall.

By the way, the latest leopard-build is buggy as hell. Graphics glitches all over the place, bugs galore.

We're witnessing the slow and painful death of OS X.
 
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BN
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mp3-players today are - technically - easy. Any small taiwanese outfit can build you one in no time at all. Mobile phones, on the other hand, are different beasts. Especially if you want to do other things than phoning with 'em.


Mobile phones are so ubiquitous these days, why doesn't the same argument hold for them? You can go to manufacturer A, B, and C and get the parts you need. Then all you need to do is have someone write a clever little interface for some other gadgets, and bingo – the iPhone.

Hey, I’m not saying that building an iPod or iPhone are like sending men to the moon. But don't write-off marketing, interface, and product design as if these weren't achievements as well. Good marketing is hard. Good design is hard (or requires rare talent – maybe for Ives it comes easy). And we know that good interface is very hard indeed. And like anything, once someone has done something successfully (like a magician showing you his tricks), it then seems so utterly easy and obvious. Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm like the world's greatest Jobs basher. But I don't see any reason to denigrate the achievements behind the iPod. Granted, point taken that indeed you don't have to invent its constituent parts from scratch. You can go to manufacturer A, B, and C for the parts. But you can say that about anything these days. Going to space is easy. You just go to Morton Thiokol for the boosters, Cape Canaveral for the launching facilities, bingo. You're in space.
 
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THALO.net divinity
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Brother Klappy you nappy headed ho.
 
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THALO.net brother
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quote:

Mobile phones are so ubiquitous these days, why doesn't the same argument hold for them? You can go to manufacturer A, B, and C and get the parts you need.


No, you can't. Take the protocol stack for GSM, GPRS, UTMS or whatever your phone uses, for example: There used to be exactly two companies worldwide that sold this kind of software (one of which i used to work for). One got bought out by Texas Instruments, the other AFAIK has gone belly-up. So there's no one you can "go to to get the parts you need". This kind of software is all proprietary these days, owned by TI, Nokia, Siemens or who-ever, and they will only license it under very restrictive conditions because it's theirs. And don't expect it to do what the iPhone needs out of the box, because no one really tried the internet-thing on a mobile so far because it doesn't really work. And that's just the low-level stuff. We're not even talking about the application layer. There's a reason why Apple is throwing all the resources at the iPhone right now, because they HAVE to develop this stuff themselves. Now imagine the already-shaky-as-hell OS X running on top of a shaky wireless protocol stack that's just barely okay for phoning, but not for anything else, and you're in deep shit.

quote:

Then all you need to do is have someone write a clever little interface for some other gadgets, and bingo – the iPhone.


Yeah, that someone unfortunately is working for Nokia, Siemens or who ever. I've worked in this field for a couple of years, and that "someone you can just call and he'll fix it" simply doesn't exist. Mobile phones are really complicated beasts, believe me.

quote:

Hey, I’m not saying that building an iPod or iPhone are like sending men to the moon. But don't write-off marketing, interface, and product design as if these weren't achievements as well. Good marketing is hard. Good design is hard (or requires rare talent – maybe for Ives it comes easy). And we know that good interface is very hard indeed. And like anything, once someone has done something successfully (like a magician showing you his tricks), it then seems so utterly easy and obvious. Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm like the world's greatest Jobs basher. But I don't see any reason to denigrate the achievements behind the iPod. Granted, point taken that indeed you don't have to invent its constituent parts from scratch. You can go to manufacturer A, B, and C for the parts. But you can say that about anything these days. Going to space is easy. You just go to Morton Thiokol for the boosters, Cape Canaveral for the launching facilities, bingo. You're in space.


You have absolutely no idea of the technical challenges that are caused by, for example, wireless mobile internet access. Although everybody with half a brain, after thinking about it for a minute or two, could come to the conclusion that having a cable to send data over and keeping the receiver in one place all the time makes things a lot easier. Just like everyone with half a brain, after thinking about it for a minute or two, could come to the conclusion that doing the internet-thing on a mobile-phone-display with a mobile-phone-"keyboard" (just one button on the iPhone to make it easy for you !) isn't just snap-a-finger-and-there-you-go. So you're just blathering uninformed nonsense.

It's fascinating how people with absolutely no clue today take all the star-trek-happy-horseshit-gizmo's around them for granted and don't even think about how all this stuff actually works any more. Wanna build a smart phone ? Yeah, sure, there has to be someone out there you can just call and he'll build you one. Easy. The birth of the iPhone. Cool. Let's think about which colors we use and the design. Someone else will do the boring stuff for us, and if it doesn't work, hey, at least it'll look real cool and we'll make a ton of money with it.

Just like Steve thought he could pull another easy one, and right now he's in deep shit.

Apple won't be killed by marketing: They're perfect at that. They will be killed by their ignorance of the technical part of their business.
 
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