OK, this one is driving me absolutely scrammy. I'll be working for a while (usually in Adobe products)... and suddenly my cursor will go inactive if I try to click or use a tool near the BOTTOM of the screen.

The best way to describe it, is as if there's an invisible window... a horizontal "dead zone" across the lower 1/5 or 1/6 of my 22" Cinema Display. A zone where whatever cursor you have turns into the regular ARROW cursor, and in which nothing is clickable or draggable. So, for example, if you have a pallete down at the bottom of the screen, you can't use it. If you're working on a Photoshop document, and you have say the BRUSH tool, you can't paint down there.

It's maddening. And I believe this is since the last system update. The only workaround is to a) move the window or whatever up out of the dead zone; or 2) restart.

Once again, it's the same story as with most OS X bugs, they start popping up WITH USE. This OS, and the apps that run under it, break, the longer or more intensively you use them. I betcha digis never see these bugs. Only me. And what's more, I occasionally see ones that were supposedly fixed. Every once in a while I see the terrible repeating text bug. I still ALWAYS get the scrambled text bug (narrowed down to Suitcase auto-activation and certain versions of Helvetica T1)...

There's nasty GoLive window draw bugs. Come on Apple, come on, Adobe. I'm supposed to be adopted now, but nothing friggin' WORKS! I'm one pissed off consumer.

I still say OS X is not adequate for pro use. It gets clearer and clearer that this is true. The performance and reliability of this operating system and its apps just ain't there.

Brother thalo

We have several 22's in the office. I will ask if anyone has noticed such behavior.

ATI just recently updated their drivers for Mac cards. Maybe give that a try.

Do you have Dock magnification running? Noboby in the office runs magnification.

I do have dock magnification running. Interesting thought. I'll see if the dead zone approximates the uppermost limit of the max magnification next time it happens.

Brother thalo

Did you ever run any of the ATI updaters on the 9000 in Seabiscuit in the past?

ATI posted a universal updater.

It affects the 9000. There are 2 files there to download. The ROM updater is at the bottom. This will change the clock speed on your card.

I can not say this is part of your problem but ATI has supplied solid updates in the past.

I installed a new 9200 that was having major green artifacts trailing behind the left edge of windows especially after waking from sleep. ATI released an updater that fixed the problem within about 3 weeks of releasing the card.

Brother Rico,
I had run the previous ATI updater, but not the one released last month. I just did it. Both the ROM revision, and the driver update. I'll see if that helps.

But this bug seems more like a window manager issue. Or like you hinted, maybe a dock issue. As I said, it's almost like there's an invisible Window riding above the bottom of my display, where nothing is clickable. Or where tools don't work. If you start a brush above the dead zone, and drag into it, it works, but you can't START painting in the dead zone. You'd have to move the window up out of it to do that.

It does seem like the problem has something to do with the Dock. It happens down near the Dock so it just seems logical.

The ATI update released yesterday specifically changed the clock speed on your 9000 per the release notes which could make the card run smoother for things like window resizing and such.

I have had problems with Photoshop as well. I set up droplets to resize images for the web in PS and to optimize in Imageready.The resize droplet in Photoshop CS does not function properly. Say I drop 80 jpg files on the resize droplet I get the quality dialogue before it closes each file. This defeats the purpose of the droplet because I have to hit okay on the dialogue for each file. It should save and close automatically. I might have the droplet set up wrong but I have done it several ways with the same results. The time saving droplet is now a time consuming droplet.

So there does seem to be some things Adobe still has to work out.

I saw this note on another board about the ATI updater.

quote:

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"To restore (or preserve) the 275MHz clock speed of the RADEON 9000, you *MUST* perform a CUSTOM install and manually select the correct RADEON 9000 entry from the list.

Otherwise, the Easy/standard install will always default to the 250MHz speed to maintain compatibility with the newest RADEON 9000 boards."

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I think your card should run at 275Mhz. The newer 9000 cards have 128mb DDR and a clock speed of 250Mhz. The ATI drivers have been running your card at 250Mhz. To fix it properly you must do a custom install as directed above if you have not already.

It might improve game play.

Brother Rico,
I just did the easy install. Mine is a 64MB Radeon 9000 Pro. I don't see anywhere where the clock speed is listed.

Seems to work fine, but the dead zone problem is still there. I think it's an Adobe CS bug.

I don't game play on Seabiscuit, only on my traitorous PC.

I am just kidding you.

But to properly install the update for your card you need to do a custom install.

I tried to see if I could reproduce the problem you describe on my CRT. It does not seem to happen for me either with magnification on or off.

Did you try moving the Dock to either the right or left to see if it goes away?

Moving the Dock has no effect.

Like I said, I think it's an Adobe CS/Window Manager bug. The only thing that works, is to move the affected window up on the screen a few inches, out of the dead zone (where the tools don't work).

Do you have any Dock Haxies installed?

This could create dead zones or conflict with Adobe.

quote:

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Do you have any Dock Haxies installed?

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You're funny.

Nah man, nothing like that.

OK, here's some more info on the dead zone bug...

Right now, it's an area rougly 3" x 3" in the lower left corner of my screen, about an inch or so from the bottom, and an inch or so from the left. In that area, you can't do anything with the mouse. So for example, if I made a really small window, like a sticky, or a small Photoshop window or took a palette or something and dragged it INTO the dead zone, I'd never be able drag it out of there. If you're going to use any kind of a photoshop (or any mouse-based) tool, you'd have to start outside the dead zone, and keep the mouse button down and drag into it. You can't START using a tool or cursor in the dead zone.

Every single app I open is affected by the dead zone bug. The Finder and desktop are affected.

For example, I usually have a bunch of icons on my desktop. If I try to drag one into the dead zone, it does a "snapback"... like it can't be put there, or like it's trying to snap to a huge grid.

Changing the size, location, and prefs of the DOCK has no effect on the dead zone.

Quitting all apps has no effect. The only thing that works is a system restart. There is no dead zone after a fresh restart. But use your apps for a while and it appears.

And sometimes it seems to get friggin' BIGGER.

I encourage anyone with a 22" Cinema Display, and OS X 10.3.5, use your Mac for a while, then look for the dead zone.

Thalo here's a link describing your problem http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031028081746219

Warning: Terminal

Easy way: get the latest version of OnyX, and go to the Appearance settings then to Expose settings and uncheck Minimize Desktop.

Hope this helps.

That's it, brother Napier...

friggin' CRAPSPOSÉ!

If you drag the exposéd desktop around the screen... it creates a dead zone wherever you drop it, provide you invoke crapsposé again. Eventually, you could end up with a totally useless working surface.

Gotta love it.

No, OS X ain't buggy... much.

Let's give up the love for Brother Napier!

quote:

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Let's give up the love for Brother Napier!

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Indeed.

And just to think, pretty soon we're going to have "exposé for widgets"!!! Groan.

The Mac platform is becoming unreliable, dumbed down, and inadequate for pro use. The only reason I friggin' USE crapsposé, is to try and wade through the unbelievable bloat and distracting visual mayhem of OS X. And now, when I do that, it destroys the functionality of my important apps, forcing me to restart my computer?? Huh? Fuck that.

I haven't tried the fix yet, but I'm about to. I'll let you know how it goes. It irks me to have to hack the OS, to get rid of a stupid eye-candy feature that in my mind shouldn't ever have been there in the first place. The UI should be streamlined enough that by definition it's clear enough visually for the user at all times. Forestalling the need for any bullshit like crapsposé.

Just for closure, and anyone following this thread, you have to type:

quote:

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defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall Dock

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in the terminal to remove the dead-zone creating mini-desktop.

Thalo I've never had the problem you had, but if I did, I would have tried OnyX.

Just curious if you tried it and it didn't work.

quote:

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defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall Dock

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Do unix people pronounce stuff like that or do they spell it out?

I left that bitch X again, when I'm in 9 the terminal seems like a bad dream. But the bitch knows I'll be back, I always go back.

LOL, brother Napier...
I dunno about other people, but I sure as hell TRY to say the mumbo jumbo in my head as I type it. "com-dot-apple-dot-dock... wa-vous...BOOL true... kill all Dock"

All that command line does is change crapsposé back to the way it was, where all the windows fly to the edges. Works. Doesn't create dead zones, and man oh man did I have fucking enough of those. I was at my wit's end with them.

I was in 9 recently for the first time in weeks, and I must say that I always say exactly the same thing. OUT LOUD: "God, it's like getting a new computer." The interface is so fast and responsive, it's actually shocking to you after you've spent time in the belly of the bloated beast.

quote:

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Originally posted by thalo:
That's it, brother Napier...

friggin' CRAPSPOSÉ!

If you drag the exposéd desktop around the screen... it creates a dead zone wherever you drop it, provide you invoke crapsposé again. Eventually, you could end up with a totally useless working surface.

Gotta love it.

No, OS X ain't buggy... much.

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Have you considered that there might be a reason why the function described in that MacOSXhints page ISN'T IMPLEMENTED YET?